Creating a character

[AZZA]

I'm just starting out in a new MRQ game and making a character. I'm keen on a warrior type, the referee has allowed us to start as seasoned characters, and am keen to try a two handed sword wielding warrior.
My only problem is how do I make him a survivable prospect? Parrying only 4 pts of damage when my character is dishing out 2d8 plus str is really got me cringing. Has anyone worked out a way to make these guys possible?

 

[Halfbat]

Dodge and good armour?

When it can be afforded a Marvellous Parrying 3 Greatsword (10x the cost, +3 AP).

 

[Adept]

A greatsword parries only four points on a success vs. success?

WTH?

 

[Mugen]

A greatsword parries only four points on a success vs. success?

WTH?

Yes, and it's a fairly good weapon for parrying. Only shields have a better defensive value.

 

[JohnLokiBeard]

Try this:
Instead of using weapon AP to parry, use weapon HP + defenders damage bonus. Any damage not absorbed by the parry is taken by both the defender and the weapon*, but the weapon AP reduces damage to the weapon and obviously the defenders armour reduces damage to the defender.

You might want to reduce AP for all shields to 4 to prevent them being too unbreakable [and there's a good argument for doing that anyway, as by the RAW a Kite Shield is tougher than a reinforced door].


* This initially looks as if the excess damage is being doubled, but actually it's the 'parried' damage being blocked by the weapon rather than turned aside.

 

[Mugen]

Try this:
Instead of using weapon AP to parry, use weapon HP + defenders damage bonus.

I guess you meant Weapon AP + damage bonus, as those are different in MRQ ?

I think it's a very good idea.

 

[JohnLokiBeard]

Try this:
Instead of using weapon AP to parry, use weapon HP + defenders damage bonus.

I guess you meant Weapon AP + damage bonus, as those are different in MRQ ?

I think it's a very good idea.

Nope, I do mean HP. That way, as the weapon gets more damaged it becomes less effective at parrying. And AP + db is awfully harsh on weak characters!

Glad to be of help though.

 

[soltakss]

It does seem that the HP of shields look fairly similar to RQ3 APs.

So, a Target Shield has 12 HP, a Kite Shield has 18 HP.

So, using the HPs to parry with would be consistent with RQ3 parrying values. Then the APs would be used to protect weapons when the weapons are being attacked.



I've just noticed somethng when reading the SRD.

Strike Weapon / Shield
The attacker declares that he is attempting to attack the target’s held weapon or shield. If the attack is successful, any damage is dealt directly to the opponent’s weapon, using the rules for attacking inanimate objects. Natural weaponry may not be attacked in this way.

and

Using a weapon on an inanimate object with armour points equal to or greater than that of the weapon deals damage on both the object and the weapon.

So, since both target and kite shields have more APs and HPs than any weapon on the table, attacking to damage a shield means that you are more likely to break your own weapon than the shield.

An example. I have a 1D4 Damage Bonus and a Bastard Sword which does 1D8 damage and has 4AP/12HP. A Target Shield has 8AP/12HP. I can't see how you can break the shield first.

Attack 1: I do 10 points of damage, 8 get blocked by the shield and the shield takes 2HP damage, but my sword takes 10 damage, 4 is blocked and the sword takes 6HP damage. Shield 10HP, Sword 6HP.

Attack 2: I do 6 points of damage, the shield blocks it all, but my sword takes a 6 point blow and takes 2HP. Shield 10HP, Sword 4HP.

Attack 3: I get lucky and do 12 damage, the shield takes 4HP damage and my sword takes 8HP damage. Sword breaks and shield hangs there looking smug. Shield 4HP, Sword -4HP.

OK, perhaps the damage done to the shield is revisitied on the sword.

Attack 1: I do 10 points of damage, 8 get blocked by the shield and the shield takes 2HP damage, my sword takes a blow of 2 but the armour blocks it. Shield 10HP, Sword 12HP.

Attack 2: I do 6 points of damage, the shield blocks it all, nothing comes back on the sword. Shield 10HP, Sword 12HP.

Attack 3: I get lucky and do 12 damage, the shield takes 4HP damage and my sword blocks 4 taking no damage. Shield 4HP, Sword 12HP.

Attack 4: I do 11 damage, the shield blocks 8 and takes 3HP, but 3HP bounces off the sword. Shield 1HP, Sword 12HP.

Atack 5: I do 12 damage, 4 gets through, shield breaks and sword is unharmed.

In this situation, the sword cannot possibly take damage.

Which, if any, is preferable?

 

[Licheking]

Actually i allow a successful parry to competly stop the damage from the blow, but the weapon then has to take the damage instead. Deducting Ap and then applying the rest to the HP.

 

[Rurik]

If you look at the combat tables as being written for the two-roll system, which certainly seems to be the case, then the parry result of: Weapon blocks 2xAP would be common (at least until the participants have very high skills). Using the one roll system it is almost never going to happen.

In the RAW a greatsword is pretty much useless for parrying another greatsword.

I had originally tried doubling AP when using the one roll system (which results in Weapon APs of 4, 6,and 8, with sheild AP's of 10, 16, and 20) but that made sheilds too good so I switched to a flat +4 (weapon ap's 6,7,8 and sheild APs 9,12,14).

I like the idea of adding DB to base AP's for parrying but for myself decided not to go with it based on the extra rolling involved.

 

[Durand Durand]

Try this:
Instead of using weapon AP to parry, use weapon HP + defenders damage bonus. Any damage not absorbed by the parry is taken by both the defender and the weapon*, but the weapon AP reduces damage to the weapon and obviously the defenders armour reduces damage to the defender.

You might want to reduce AP for all shields to 4 to prevent them being too unbreakable [and there's a good argument for doing that anyway, as by the RAW a Kite Shield is tougher than a reinforced door].

This is potentially the best house rule I've seen suggested on the fourms [awaiting playtest conformation]. As AP for objects are based on construction materials, most shields would have only 2-3AP, perhaps 4 AP for the best shields, but the HP for parrying works well.

I think perhaps reviewing Weapon HP under this rule might be called for, as some weapons have a lot of HP that would be pretty hard to strike through without a critical by the attacker, and a lot of light weapons wouldn't do squat versus any parry witha shield, making them useless in a fight. I'd drop damage bonus from parry HP for a start, perhaps upping AP on weapons as a result, but I'd definitely lower HP for most stuff.

E.g. Two guys fighting with Warswords, with say a +D2 damage bonus, 1D8+1D2, 4AP/10HP will only reduce their opponents weapon HP one in every sixteen critical strikes versus sucessful parries. This rate would gradually increase as swords were damaged, but you can almost say if these guys both had 100% skill and 4pt chain armour the fight might come down to who's sword breaks first. I'd suggest we up AP and reduce HP on weapons. for this rule.

I'm tired and this needs more thinking. My head hurts.

DD

 

[Gregory Privat]

Here, I m seriously thinking about using the first line of the parry table (attacker faillure) as if it was the second one (attacker success) and play the Riposte result as a totally free reaction attack (doesnt count as an action).

What do you think ?

 

[AZZA]

Try this:
Instead of using weapon AP to parry, use weapon HP + defenders damage bonus. Any damage not absorbed by the parry is taken by both the defender and the weapon*, but the weapon AP reduces damage to the weapon and obviously the defenders armour reduces damage to the defender.

You might want to reduce AP for all shields to 4 to prevent them being too unbreakable [and there's a good argument for doing that anyway, as by the RAW a Kite Shield is tougher than a reinforced door].


* This initially looks as if the excess damage is being doubled, but actually it's the 'parried' damage being blocked by the weapon rather than turned aside.

This I like alot and will suggest to my group.
Thanks.

 

[JohnLokiBeard]

I think perhaps reviewing Weapon HP under this rule might be called for, as some weapons have a lot of HP that would be pretty hard to strike through without a critical by the attacker, and a lot of light weapons wouldn't do squat versus any parry witha shield, making them useless in a fight.

E.g. Two guys fighting with Warswords, with say a +D2 damage bonus, 1D8+1D2, 4AP/10HP will only reduce their opponents weapon HP one in every sixteen critical strikes versus sucessful parries. This rate would gradually increase as swords were damaged, but you can almost say if these guys both had 100% skill and 4pt chain armour the fight might come down to who's sword breaks first. I'd suggest we up AP and reduce HP on weapons. for this rule.


DD

Of course, what I forgot was the MRQ RAW nerfed Criticals.
I play that Critical Attacks double all damage [including db, so dodge those Troll hammers!] so it's easier to get through shields with a good blow.

The two skilled & armoured opponents being stalemated until one gets lucky at the same time as the other goofs up actually sounds OK to me, and I don't have any problem with the idea that shields actually work work well against light weapons

But thanks for the positive comments folks , I might put out some more of my House Rules for wider playtesting, either here or on Tim's Wiki...

 

[Durand Durand]

Should it require a critical? I'm of the opinion it shouldn't, for a start, because combats would take too long. We'll probably try this rule out on monday a test a few things liek varying weapon HP then.

DD

 

[Arkat]

I play that Critical Attacks double all damage [including db, so dodge those Troll hammers!] so it's easier to get through shields with a good blow.

Now you also have to change Truesword as that's exactly what that divine spell does in this system.

Perhaps max damage and ignore half armor?

 

[JohnLokiBeard]

Well, my Homebrew campaign is "rare, dangerous & nasty Call Of Cthulhu style" magic so it's not really a problem for me as True{Weapon} doesn't come up a lot, but a critical isn't as certain as a spell.

Anyway, let's see how Durand Durand's playtest went, that might show if this one House Rule can survive outside of its home environment.

 

[Durand Durand]

Hah, in our playtest we studiosly avoided combat because our foes clearly had superior arms and armour.

At the start of next session we are starting a fight with an inferior force [we hope], though with about 5 PC & 35 NPC combatants, so will let you know how that goes. I imagine we'll try normal rules to begin the combat and change rules every game minute to see how that goes. We are pretty keen to try a lot of different things out.

DD

 

[Durand Durand]

[Edit] double post

 

[Nickbergquist]

I'm just starting out in a new MRQ game and making a character. I'm keen on a warrior type, the referee has allowed us to start as seasoned characters, and am keen to try a two handed sword wielding warrior.
My only problem is how do I make him a survivable prospect? Parrying only 4 pts of damage when my character is dishing out 2d8 plus str is really got me cringing. Has anyone worked out a way to make these guys possible?

Assuming your warrior is going up against a bunch of "common joes" ou there, the average fighter will have +1d2 damage bonus if he's lucky, and will probably be wielding a war sword and/or battle axe (1d8 or 1d8+1) respectively. They'll do 1d8+1+1d2 to your guy (average 6 pts) to your guy who can take 4 APs and soak 2 Hps of damage (got armor, esily absorbed then!), but then your guy can wollop them with 2d8+at least 1d2 damage for an average of 10 pts, which even if they parry at 4 APs leaves 6 getting through most armor for some damage.

It's not you getting hurt I'm worried about....its all the poor, maimed NPCs! :shock: