Core Rulebook, Mishaps resulting from Events, Commissions

[rinku]

I'm a OLD Traveller hand (started in 1980 with 1st edition LBBs) and have just discovered the Mongoose version, which pretty much answers every prayer I've had about the old game since even before GDW started to self-destruct it with MegaTraveller. Well done to all!

However, one thing about the new character generation sequence is not totally clear to me. In many cases it is possible for the event table to generate a roll on a mishap table (i.e. Noble result 8 if you fail your roll). Is it expected that this would result in ejection from the career, unless specifically stated (i.e. as for event roll 2)?

Another fuzzy point is Commission vs Advancement. The main text gives rolling for commission as an optional roll, and says nothing about any consequences of failing this roll. However, the Character Generation Checklist says that characters can roll for commission instead of rolling for advancement.

So...

If I choose to roll for commission, does that mean I avoid ejection from the career for having served too long (somehow I DON'T think so!), or does the commission roll replace the advancement roll for that rule OR is the checklist basically wrong and you may be able to be commissioned and promoted in one term as per the old system?

Naturally, as Ref I can choose my own interpretation, but I thought it might be worth seeing if this issue has been resolved.

One very little annoyance - why get rid of SMGs in the basic book? I realise they've been sort of put back in Mercenary as Autocarbines, but c'mon...

 

[BP]

Welcome to the forums rinku! - you'll find you are in good company here (and not really that old!). Though I didn't start till '81, myself...

As to your questions - they all have been answered here - which rhymes with beer - which is related to why I'll let others answer more, tonight.

This thread should help about being ejected. (Note the Search feature at the top of the page).

P.S. - people will gladly help - but Fridays are usually a bit slow in response times.

 

[apoc527]

Buy the CSC for carbines/SMGs...and virtually everything else. It might seem a little...I don't know...shallow, but the CSC is what got me to fully buy into MGT.

 

[rinku]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I figured the CSC would have some kind of SMG, just venting about it

And, it is pretty easy to port stuff over from the old editions, anyway.

(Mind you, I'm not defending the original set's weapon list either...)

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I am also an old-timer Alumni class of 1977!

I allow BOTH a Commission Roll and an Advancement Roll in the same term. Failing the Commision roll does nothing to you and you still get to roll for Advancement (which can kick you out).

The rules are a bit fuzzy on this, but as a former military person, I can apply for a Commission and still take the Advancement test, so it makes sense to me!

 

[rinku]

Hmm... I guess reading the rules again, there doesn't seem to be any bonus skill attached to becoming commissioned (apart from any mandatory rank one) - just the alternate rank progression and access to the officer skill table.

(I'd initially thought they had one or the other to keep the skill rate the same between services. But it's actually not an issue)

So, yeah! Thanks RTT!

 

[CosmicGamer]

I am also an old-timer Alumni class of 1977!

I allow BOTH a Commission Roll and an Advancement Roll in the same term. Failing the Commision roll does nothing to you and you still get to roll for Advancement (which can kick you out).

The rules are a bit fuzzy on this, but as a former military person, I can apply for a Commission and still take the Advancement test, so it makes sense to me!

But do you allow a character to
1) Roll advance as an NCO and then possibly be commissioned
2) Possibly be commissioned first and then roll for advance as an officer or an NCO (depending on result of commission roll)
3) Possibly be commissioned and only if unsuccessful roll for NCO advancement
4) something else
??

 

[CosmicGamer]

Hmm... I guess reading the rules again, there doesn't seem to be any bonus skill attached to becoming commissioned (apart from any mandatory rank one) - just the alternate rank progression and access to the officer skill table.

(I'd initially thought they had one or the other to keep the skill rate the same between services. But it's actually not an issue)

So, yeah! Thanks RTT!

All of the Rank 1 Officers do have an associated Rank skill so unless the character already has the skill listed, they will gain a skill when commissioned.

As always, the rules can be interpreted in different ways. In one place it says the advancement roll is mandatory. If it is mandatory, how can you not do it and roll for commission instead as the checklist might indicate?

Yes, it does say in the checklist that you can roll for commission instead of rolling for advancement. The roll comes first, what comes after it? Where it says if you succeed you gain a skill from the tables, this could apply for commission too. Where it says if you roll less than the number of terms, this could apply as well.

Going strictly by the checklist you have already rolled for advancement and determined the results, the possible skills, and the possible career expulsion before the step that describes a commission roll. Since the text does indicate the advancement roll is mandatory, I can see some people thinking that there is an error in the checklist and roll for advancement as NCO and then roll for commission.

Of you are free to make your own modifications.

 

[DeadMike]

Hmm... I guess reading the rules again, there doesn't seem to be any bonus skill attached to becoming commissioned (apart from any mandatory rank one) - just the alternate rank progression and access to the officer skill table.

(I'd initially thought they had one or the other to keep the skill rate the same between services. But it's actually not an issue)

So, yeah! Thanks RTT!

All of the Rank 1 Officers do have an associated Rank skill so unless the character already has the skill listed, they will gain a skill when commissioned.

As always, the rules can be interpreted in different ways. In one place it says the advancement roll is mandatory. If it is mandatory, how can you not do it and roll for commission instead as the checklist might indicate?

Yes, it does say in the checklist that you can roll for commission instead of rolling for advancement. The roll comes first, what comes after it? Where it says if you succeed you gain a skill from the tables, this could apply for commission too. Where it says if you roll less than the number of terms, this could apply as well.

Going strictly by the checklist you have already rolled for advancement and determined the results, the possible skills, and the possible career expulsion before the step that describes a commission roll. Since the text does indicate the advancement roll is mandatory, I can see some people thinking that there is an error in the checklist and roll for advancement as NCO and then roll for commission.

Of you are free to make your own modifications.

I guess some people would assume that a commission is an advancement and that rolling for a commission IS an advancement roll. Although I knew a lot of enlisted IRL that would disagree with that...lol.

 

[rinku]

All of the Rank 1 Officers do have an associated Rank skill so unless the character already has the skill listed, they will gain a skill when commissioned.

Yes, but so do the non-commissioned ranks. That remains balanced. My take on it now is to follow the sequence laid out in the text (which is slightly at odds with the checklist, but makes more sense):

1. Take term skill

2. Roll survival

3. Roll commission if desired

4. Roll Advancement

I do realise this does give the armed careers a slight edge as far as skill gain is concerned, but not all of the careers are balanced this way anyway. There is a trade-off between safety, rank/skill gain and fringe benefits. (i.e. Scouts have the worst survival/advancement rolls, but are the only career that can gain a ship without a mortgage. Nobles have the best survival/advancement rolls, but are very hard to get into and provide a one-dimensional skill set.) Army and Marines both have very uninspiring benefit tables, though it's hard to pick a downside to a naval career (lack of skills apart from spacey ones?)...

At the end of the day, you normally don't have unlimited choices as to what careers your character will be best suited for - so a little imbalance in the careers really doesn't matter. The Event table throws sufficient bonus skill opportunities in as well.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

That is how I do it as well.

I make them roll the Event after the Skill and Survival roll but before Commission or Advancement.

So, it is possible to be Commissioned (Rank O1) and then promoted to O2 in the same term.

I'm OK with it.

The fun part is keeping track of the RANKs advanced, since that affects Mustering Out Benefits.

In a worst/best case scenario, a character could advance THREE ranks in a single term (Auto Advance in an Event, Commission and then Advancement). So they would be an O2 by Rank, but be Rank 3 for Mustering Out Benefits!

 

[cbrunish]

Been playing since 1983. 8) My take on it is an either or. But the only problem I have is that it is harder to achieve a commission than advancement. But I rule that if you fail a commission roll then you may roll on advancement. As a former NCO, I can't see someone staying as a private over 4 years.

And if you make the commission roll then you don't have to worry about being kicked out of the service. This way you still have to roll on advancement since it is required. To me this makes sense. If you fail to get a commission and fail to advance as an enlisted then you actually have a chance of being thrown out of the service.

Just my two credits.

 

[DeadMike]

That is how I do it as well.

I make them roll the Event after the Skill and Survival roll but before Commission or Advancement.

So, it is possible to be Commissioned (Rank O1) and then promoted to O2 in the same term.

I'm OK with it.

The fun part is keeping track of the RANKs advanced, since that affects Mustering Out Benefits.

In a worst/best case scenario, a character could advance THREE ranks in a single term (Auto Advance in an Event, Commission and then Advancement). So they would be an O2 by Rank, but be Rank 3 for Mustering Out Benefits!

I had trouble remembering things on the first character rolled up for traveller. Now I write a list of rolls I will make before hand, then write down what the dice come up as. Makes it a whole lot easier after and I can tell the gm at a later date exactly what I rolled if need be. Doesn't take that much time to write it up before hand either, so well worth the effort.

 

[mrfingle]

So, it is possible to be Commissioned (Rank O1) and then promoted to O2 in the same term.

Well let's face it, a term is 4+ years and anyone that's done a few terms IRL (currently in the middle of my 6th here) will know at least one OF1 that brown-nosed his way up to OF2 within a few years of being commissioned (some of them even deserved it).

 

[DeadMike]

Well let's face it, a term is 4+ years and anyone that's done a few terms IRL (currently in the middle of my 6th here) will know at least one OF1 that brown-nosed his way up to OF2 within a few years of being commissioned (some of them even deserved it).

Don't know what service you are in, but my time in the US Army Combat Engineers I found very few officers that deserved anything they got. Most of them just took credit for the work others did. There were a few though that were really good and unfortunately they did not get the recognition they deserved. None that got rapid promotion deserved it. I only served a little over eight years though.

 

[rinku]

Well let's face it, a term is 4+ years and anyone that's done a few terms IRL (currently in the middle of my 6th here) will know at least one OF1 that brown-nosed his way up to OF2 within a few years of being commissioned (some of them even deserved it).

Don't know what service you are in, but my time in the US Army Combat Engineers I found very few officers that deserved anything they got. Most of them just took credit for the work others did. There were a few though that were really good and unfortunately they did not get the recognition they deserved. None that got rapid promotion deserved it. I only served a little over eight years though.

So an 8+ roll modified by social standing sounds spot on, really

 

[DeadMike]

Well let's face it, a term is 4+ years and anyone that's done a few terms IRL (currently in the middle of my 6th here) will know at least one OF1 that brown-nosed his way up to OF2 within a few years of being commissioned (some of them even deserved it).

Don't know what service you are in, but my time in the US Army Combat Engineers I found very few officers that deserved anything they got. Most of them just took credit for the work others did. There were a few though that were really good and unfortunately they did not get the recognition they deserved. None that got rapid promotion deserved it. I only served a little over eight years though.

So an 8+ roll modified by social standing sounds spot on, really

Unfortunately.

 

[GamerDude]

As a former NCO, I can't see someone staying as a private over 4 years.

As another former NCO, you mean to tell me you've never seen the young troop who just can't stay out of trouble? makes a stripe then screws up and looses a stripe?

The only problem there is, how do the end up getting to re-enlist with that kind of track record (although my uncle was like that his first 10 years in the navy and he ended up still retiring at 20)

 

[cbrunish]

As a former NCO, I can't see someone staying as a private over 4 years.

As another former NCO, you mean to tell me you've never seen the young troop who just can't stay out of trouble? makes a stripe then screws up and looses a stripe?

The only problem there is, how do the end up getting to re-enlist with that kind of track record (although my uncle was like that his first 10 years in the navy and he ended up still retiring at 20)

So true!! But the rolls are usually lower for advancement than commission. I would be more logical for a character to only roll for advancement than commission. This would be due to lower number needed to make advancement.

But I think that I will now let characters roll for commission and advancement. If they get commissioned they do not get the extra skill unless they get a successfull advancement roll.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Well, most (if not all) careers have an automatic skill for rank O1, so the essentially get a free skill for Commission.