Converting EP to Traveller, Challenge #1

[Ataraxzy]

I'm working on a conversion of Eclipse Phase to Traveller, which is going remarkably well. EP is a d100 system with a plethora of skills (Add Aptitude+Skill value, roll under), Traveller is a 2d6 system with few, but broad skills (Add Attribute mod + Skill mod, roll 8+). But in both cases, the Attributes (Aptitudes in EP) add to the skill value when rolling.

One place, however that is tricksy, is the Aptitude Maximum rating on morphs.

In EP every morph, or body, has a limit on how well its brain/body system can perform. Human baseline is 15 and your basic pod morph has physical and mental 'room' for aptitudes up to 20, while specialized combat morphs and others have a maximum of 40, better than twice as good on a linear scale.

Now, this is fine: you want to take advantage of that 35 INTuition aptitude your Ego has? Sleeve into a Menton, not a Pleasure Pod.

But!

Given a design goal of The conversion must be 100% backwards compatible with MgT (and to a lesser extent, CT):

How could one go about modeling that in Traveller, where human baseline is 7, physical characteristic max is C (barring the occasional +1 Str from personal improvement tables and avoidance of negative aging rolls)

Options I've come up with:
1. Don't. Just give morphs bonuses to stats.
Pros: Easy, both mechanically and psychologically: you're never taking away from anyone, a Baseline morph (a Flat in EP parlance) has no bonuses, whereas an expensive Ghost morph gets +2DEX, +1END, +1EDU and +1 to one other stat of the player's choice.
Cons: Morphs limiting your attributes is firmly in the 'rule of awesome' and really should be modeled.

2. Flats have an attribute max of 9, others have higher.
Pros: We now have two degrees of design freedom in creating morphs: attribute max and attribute bonuses. So, your ego having a Dex of C(12) does you no good when sleeved into a stock synthmorph or flat. Your +2 bonus is reduced to a +1. Get a better morph, brinker.
Cons: It seems to break backwards compatibility with the rest of MgT. A poor thug from a backwater TL5 world can have DCC777 as stats and using these rules, it seems that he'd have to be in something other than a Flat or Synthmorph to take advantage of that.

Either exotic morphs are easier to come by even on low TL worlds than would seem plausible or we end up telling GMs to either sleeve everyone in flats unless it's reasonable otherwise (more work! breaks backwards compatibility because we have to reconfigure stuff) or just ignore it and play as written (breaks verisimilitude, the whole point of the exercise is to let the players be able to make largely correct assumptions on the capabilities of others based on their morph)

3. Some other idea I haven't thought of yet.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Human characteristics can go as high as 15 in Traveller, that is their upper maximum without cyber enhancement or bio-mods (and even then there may be an upper limit of 15 on Int)

Try doing what EP fails to do - separate the mental from the physical.

The mind is represented by Int and to a lesser extent Edu and skills known.

So just design a variety of bodies and move the Int/Edu/Skills bit to it as you re-sleave

 

[sideranautae]

I'm not familiar with EP. When you are talking about limits in EP (Aptitude Maximum rating on morphs) are you talking about Attributes? And are those attributes 01-100 (theoretically?)

 

[Ataraxzy]

Human characteristics can go as high as 15 in Traveller, that is their upper maximum without cyber enhancement or bio-mods (and even then there may be an upper limit of 15 on Int)

True, but mechanically, (Physical) characteristics do not generally go higher than about D. The only way to get a physical characteristic above C - for example: STR - is to select one of the Army, Drifter, Navy, Marine Merchant or Scout careers: To get a STR F rating, you have to start off with a STR C, select Personal Development three times and roll a 1 each time. Only the Rogue career has a Physical Characteristic as a Mustering Out benefit: DEX+1, on a roll of 6.

Try doing what EP fails to do - separate the mental from the physical.

How does it fail to do so? Because the hardware your Ego is encased in can limit/boost your mental stats? That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Arguing with someone actually hardens their current beliefs, no matter how bizarre, because of the method by which the brain forms beliefs in the first place. Moving to a substrate that forms beliefs even a little bit differently should have a profound effect on the ability of a correct argument to change a person's mind.

The mind is represented by Int and to a lesser extent Edu and skills known.

So just design a variety of bodies and move the Int/Edu/Skills bit to it as you re-sleave

I considered exactly this route, but felt it was unsatisfactory because it leaves behind certain iconic EP morphs like the Menton or morphs that have built-in, highly adaptable instinctual responses (+1 0-G skill for Bouncers, or +1EDU for the Fury morph, representing a generalized ability to quickly analyze chaotic situations, like combat)

 

[Ataraxzy]

I'm not familiar with EP. When you are talking about limits in EP (Aptitude Maximum rating on morphs) are you talking about Attributes? And are those attributes 01-100 (theoretically?)

Very close!

EP is D100, roll under.

You add your Aptitude (Characteristic) to your Skill to get a target number. Aptitudes are expensive, apply to multiple skills and are generally 25 or lower without a morph. Morphs provide aptitude boosts (and in some cases, ceilings)

Roll under your target number (Apt+Skill) to succeed. Higher is better. Doubles under rock, Doubles over suck

Aptitudes cannot be bought above 30. A Skill of 60 would give the character a (apt30+skill60) 90 target number.

Morphs can only handle so much of an aptitude.
Baseline for Aptitudes is 15. Joe Normal McAverage has Aptitudes of 15 across the board.
Flats have an Aptitude max of 20. Any aptitude the Ego brings along that is higher than 20 is lowered to 20 for the duration of that Ego's stay in that morph.
Splicers have a max of 25 and grant a +5 bonus to a single aptitude of the player's choice.
Remade morphs have an Aptitude max of 40, higher than can be bought at character creation, but provide +10 bonuses to two aptitudes, which will boost a 30 Apt to 40 as soon as the Ego sleeves into the Remade.

 

[sideranautae]

I'm not familiar with EP. When you are talking about limits in EP (Aptitude Maximum rating on morphs) are you talking about Attributes? And are those attributes 01-100 (theoretically?)

Very close!

EP is D100, roll under.

You add your Aptitude (Characteristic) to your Skill to get a target number. Aptitudes are expensive, apply to multiple skills and are generally 25 or lower without a morph. Morphs provide aptitude boosts (and in some cases, ceilings)

Roll under your target number (Apt+Skill) to succeed. Higher is better.

Ok. To convert I think you need to model Trav attribute effect on a success roll converted to to a %. Baseline it. A Dex of X when attempting a task results in x% chance of success. With a baseline you can then determine how to scale to Trav when coming from that type of D100 system.

I did this for converting MGT task system to a 3D6 and D20 based task system of my own design.

 

[Ataraxzy]

Ok. To convert I think you need to model Trav attribute effect on a success roll converted to to a %. Baseline it. A Dex of X when attempting a task results in x% chance of success. With a baseline you can then determine how to scale to Trav when coming from that type of D100 system.

I did this for converting MGT task system to a 3D6 and D20 based task system of my own design.

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid that... fortunately I've collected all the necessary data into tables.

 

[sideranautae]

Ok. To convert I think you need to model Trav attribute effect on a success roll converted to to a %. Baseline it. A Dex of X when attempting a task results in x% chance of success. With a baseline you can then determine how to scale to Trav when coming from that type of D100 system.

I did this for converting MGT task system to a 3D6 and D20 based task system of my own design.

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid that... fortunately I've collected all the necessary data into tables.

I created my tables (for D20 based & 3D6) from my calcs. Don't know how to create tables without running the math first. Sure would have saved me time.

 

[Ataraxzy]

I created my tables (for D20 based & 3D6) from my calcs. Don't know how to create tables without running the math first. Sure would have saved me time.

Mostly just a delta table, citing the % change in success chance per +/-DM. It only goes up to +/-6, which is a guaranteed success/failure:

DM  TN   %Succ  Delta 
                (change in success rate)
-5   13+   0
-4   12+  2.78   2.78
-3   11+  8.33   5.55
-2   10+  16.67  8.34
-1   09+  27.78  11.11
+0   08+  41.67  13.89
+1   07+  58.33  16.67
+2   06+  72.22  13.89
+3   05+  83.33  11.11
+4   04+  91.67  8.34
+5   03+  97.22  5.55
+6   02+  100    2.78

 

[sideranautae]

I created my tables (for D20 based & 3D6) from my calcs. Don't know how to create tables without running the math first. Sure would have saved me time.

Mostly just a delta table, citing the % change in success chance per +/-DM. It only goes up to +/-6, which is a guaranteed success/failure:

DM  TN   %Succ  Delta 
                (change in success rate)
-5   13+   0
-4   12+  2.78   2.78
-3   11+  8.33   5.55
-2   10+  16.67  8.34
-1   09+  27.78  11.11
+0   08+  41.67  13.89
+1   07+  58.33  16.67
+2   06+  72.22  13.89
+3   05+  83.33  11.11
+4   04+  91.67  8.34
+5   03+  97.22  5.55
+6   02+  100    2.78

Ok. You calculated the % of change in order to create the table...

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I got intrigued by your earlier thread.
I took a step back. I tend to look at the "story wording" of things in a game instead of looking purely at the mathematics from the get go. I started with the task "names".

EC			Mod			Traveller		DM
Effortless		30		Simple			6
Simple				20		Easy			4
Easy				10		Routine			2
Average			0		Average			0
Difficult		-10		Difficult			-2
Challenging	 -20		Very Difficult	-4
Hard           -30		Formidable		-6

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Flats are your basic "standard" humans (unless you decide that Splicers are your new "standard humans" though the Jovian Junta would argue that point for sure). So some standards for unmodified humans are:

pg 121:

Durability is unlimited, though the range for baseline (unmodified) humans tends to fall between 20 and 60. Your Durability stat is determined by your morph.

Pg 139 Flats:

Aptitude Maximum: 20
Durability: 30

I would disagree on your evaluation as from a dice roll standpoint Traveller stats range from 2 thru 12 (C), but thru standard character generation barring injury are allowed to go to a full 15 (F).

In converting Aptitudes (if done) the ranges seem to work out

EC	Traveller
Aptitude	Attribute
1	1
2	2
3	3
4	4
5	4
6	5
7	6
8	7
9	8
10	8
11	9
12	10
13	10
14	11
15	12
16	12
17	13
18	14
19	14
20	15

 

[Ataraxzy]

I would disagree on your evaluation as from a dice roll standpoint Traveller stats range from 2 thru 12 (C), but thru standard character generation barring injury are allowed to go to a full 15 (F).

I knew this would trip people up.

Traveller likes to let you think that you're going to walk out of character creation with an FFF777 combat god.

In reality, it's virtually impossible without fudging the dice, a lot.

Roadblock #1: Initial dice rolls max at C. Chances of a 12? 2.78% Even a lucky 3% chance only gets you within 3 of an F rating, most characters will be 6 or more points away.
Roadblock #2: You only get stat boosts on the Personal Development (PD) tables.
Roadblock #3: To get rolls on the PD tables you have to make survival rolls.
Roadblock #4: Only 3 in 6 (max) entries on the PD tables are Physical stats, and provided you're lucky enough to get a physical stat roll, there's a 2 in 3 chance that it's the wrong stat.
Roadblock #4a: Given a rating of C in a stat, rolling on the PD table, hoping for a 16.67% lucky break and rolling a 1/6 chance of boosting THAT stat is a poor decision economically. It's almost ALWAYS better to get another skillup.
Roadblock #5: #4a is the instantaneous decision matrix. This is the over-all decision matrix: Sticking to the PD tables carries an ever increasing opportunity cost. So you got your STR F character, after 5 terms and with only Skill/0's from his Basic Training and HW/Education skillsets.
Roadblock #6: Aging effects will burn you down. (only applies to Flats)

Trust me, I've done the math. 12 is reasonable, for players. remember, the PC generation system isn't there to model normal populations. It's there to generate interesting characters.

The lacuna here is the stereotypical TL5 Destitute Thug with FFF777 stats (a statistical guarantee with a large enough population). Players can buy better morphs.

And I think I just came up with a solution I'm happy with: Sure, there are Egos running around in morphs (either the one they were born in, or one they've inhabited and trained in and trained up with for years and years) that are truly exceptional. You'll even get to meet them, and if you're lucky, blow them up. You? You've got an average Flat morph sleeved around your Ego. You want better than C-grade stats? Get adventuring!

 

[Ataraxzy]

I got intrigued by your earlier thread.
I took a step back. I tend to look at the "story wording" of things in a game instead of looking purely at the mathematics from the get go. I started with the task "names".

EC			Mod			Traveller		DM
Effortless		30		Simple           6
Simple          20      Easy             4
Easy				10		Routine          2
Average			0		 Average          0
Difficult		-10		Difficult       -2
Challenging	 -20		Very Difficult  -4
Hard           -30		Formidable      -6

This is a tack I hadn't thought of. Good thinking!