Conan Plans Unveiled - Deepest Apologies

[Der Rote Baron]

Well, I have to be honest. I would have been completely ...

... nuts and bought all of the stuff for the new CONAN lines: MRQ? Here, me! SW Conan? That is SO ME again and HURRY UP, STUPID! Atlases by Vince? ... Keep it coming ... me!

D20 is all nice and swell and my players would flay me alive and sacrifice my soul to Set if I would even mention to convert the campaign (or - Crom forbid!) cancel it to start something new -not so much because of the system but because they like the campaign, the adventures, the setting, their characters.

But I am looking for something else and Savage Worlds is slowly but surely drawing me into its abyss of dark gaming delights. MRQ? Nice system, a little bit to cumbersome for my taste to be a real sustitution for the D20-cumbersomeness, BUT LEATHER BOUND? MEMEMEMEME!

So, the only good thing about them (ehem!) stupid people cancelling the whole project is that I save LOTS of €UROS.

But that does not mek me very happy at all.

 

[Radioactive Ape Colin]

Matt has noted that OGL Conan would've continued (and is continuing) as well, so folks all worried about that can lay that concern to rest. You guys really need to check out the thread on RPG.net rather than just this one.
Look HERE.

They were simply planning on opening it up in several systems for as many folks as possible to enjoy playing Conan games (rather than just having them restricted to folks who enjoy OGL-based systems), and that would've been good for everyone, resulting in a lot more material to buy, possibly convert or mine for ideas, etc. for anyone playing Conan using any of those systems. Just like the Cthulhu market has benefitted from having a variety of rpg systems now (BRP, SW, Gumshoe, etc.) Having multiple system possibilities reinvigorated the Cthulhu license.

Colin

 

[Supplement Four]

All of that is now gone, swept clear with a single decision.

One word. Accent, second syllable.

SONOFABITCH!!

 

[Clovenhoof]

By the way: be glad if you got the no-go call before actually making huge investments.

Last year, the German publisher of D&D had just completed the translation and print run of D&D 4th when, all of a sudden and with no reason given, WotC repealed their license, practically over night. I.e. allowing only a very short time to sell off the freshly-printed books.
"Tough luck" for the German company. They are probably still sitting on huge piles of mint books with no chance in hell to sell them off.

(There's been much speculation about the reasons and motivations for this procedure, but the best anyone could come up with is that WotC thought they could squeeze more money out of the German license with a different publisher. Well, to this day there is still no new German D&D publisher, so if that was their intention, it gloriously backfired.
Which confirms the ancient Chinese wisdom: half of a little is better than the whole of nothing.)

 

[treeplanter]

Would have bought SW adapted Conan and most of the atlas. Not sure sure we would necessarly make the switch from d20 to SW, but options is never bad

so bad...

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Matt has noted that OGL Conan would've continued (and is continuing) as well, so folks all worried about that can lay that concern to rest. You guys really need to check out the thread on RPG.net rather than just this one.
Look HERE.

They were simply planning on opening it up in several systems for as many folks as possible to enjoy playing Conan games (rather than just having them restricted to folks who enjoy OGL-based systems), and that would've been good for everyone, resulting in a lot more material to buy, possibly convert or mine for ideas, etc. for anyone playing Conan using any of those systems. Just like the Cthulhu market has benefitted from having a variety of rpg systems now (BRP, SW, Gumshoe, etc.) Having multiple system possibilities reinvigorated the Cthulhu license.

Colin

Matt doesnt say a lot extra on rpg.net. I see him dampening down the worst bits of specualtion. If theres going to be any further news, its going to be here rather than on other boards.

Basically, its the same as he has told us here. The licence doesnt allow for two or more games off of it, we knew that, but maybe Mongoose thought they could convince the licence holders otherwise because of the good job Mongoose have been doing with the property. I think, amybe Mongoose have been a bit optimistic, considering the limited rpg market, but thts up to them.

Once you have your nose tweaked by the licence holder, you tend to be a bit reticent to invest further resources into something that could sour even further. This is obviously the position Mongoose are in at the moment.

They cant do what they want with the property, cant progress it any, so should they blindly continue producing stuff for the game under strict, constricting conditions that the licence holders have stipulated? Its obviously annoying, and many companies at that point would walk away. Mongoose havent yet decided what they are going to do yet. This is the current situation.

Nothing is guaranteed. There may be further D20 material. There may not. There will be no MRQ material. The atlas idea has been rejected. Mongoose have to decide whether its worthwhile carrying on with dwindling D20 sales. We have to wait and see what they decide. One thing is for sure, its not going to continue in the same way its been going.

 

[Radioactive Ape Colin]

I'm pretty sure that Matt noted that Paradox actually gave them the go ahead with the recent plans, but then suddenly turned around and changed their minds.Aha, yes, here it is as posted by Matt:

"After agreeing our new plans for Conan a few months ago, the licence holders contacted us seven days before the core development was due to start to tell us that they had decided we should not proceed."

So, Mongoose did convince Paradox to let them go ahead with multiple systems, but Paradox then pulled the plug a few months later.

Colin

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

So, Mongoose did convince Paradox to let them go ahead with multiple systems, but Paradox then pulled the plug a few months later.

Colin

Which, I suppose, is worse than them saying 'no' straight away. All that work wasted. I think we just have to see what Mongoose decide to do. They are understandably p#issed off with the situation.

Maybe they will just let it run out without further releases. But we dont know what the terms of the licence are, so we can only guess. I would say, however, that I wouldnt expect it to continue, at least, in its present form, or for any length of time.

 

[Korppis]

Shame to hear all of this, expecially about the Atlas...
I wouldn't propably been interested switching on a new system; although i play with several different systems i feel that OGL Conan works perfectly for me and my group.
OTOH Atlas would definely been in my shopping list. All of Vincent Darlage's regional books have been exellent... I have also long wanted to see own sourcebooks for Nordheim, Turan&Hyrkania and Black Kingdoms and all these regions would propably been covered in Atlas.

 

[Radioactive Ape Colin]

Which, I suppose, is worse than them saying 'no' straight away. All that work wasted. I think we just have to see what Mongoose decide to do. They are understandably p#issed off with the situation.

Maybe they will just let it run out without further releases. But we dont know what the terms of the licence are, so we can only guess. I would say, however, that I wouldnt expect it to continue, at least, in its present form, or for any length of time.

I think it's fairly safe to say that any company would be very wary of continued dealings with a licensor who has just stiffed them with an unexpected U-turn on a decision they'd made previously. Add in the dubious legality of Paradox's claims to holding the Conan copyright, and the potential future upheavals around the license with a new Conan film loosely slated for 2010 (I imagine Paradox are really hoping this will increase the value of their license), and it's no wonder Mongoose may be very wary.

 

[Radioactive Ape Colin]

This link is extremely interesting. It's a detailed investigation of the copyright of REH's works and fully lists all of the work of REH that is legally in the Public Domain as of 2002 (obviously, more will have become Public Domain since then):
http://www.robert-e-howard.org/AnotherThought4rerevised.html

Project Gutenberg also present a large number of REH's Conan works with no mention of Paradox copyright here:
http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterH

cheers!
Colin

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

This link is extremely interesting. It's a detailed investigation of the copyright of REH's works and fully lists all of the work of REH that is legally in the Public Domain as of 2002 (obviously, more will have become Public Domain since then):
http://www.robert-e-howard.org/AnotherThought4rerevised.html

Project Gutenberg also present a large number of REH's Conan works with no mention of Paradox copyright here:
http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterH

cheers!
Colin

I agree. This is hugely intersting. I guess it comes down to someone having the biggest legal testicles. It only takes one company to challenge, but there is nothing inherently illegal about asserting copyright when you actually dont have any actual ownership claim.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Colin

Your link about Howards copyright affirms that Paradox have fulfilled all of the legal requirements to assert copyright for the next 20 odd years, because of their limited print run of stories (Limited to 11 copies!). This isnt applicable in the U.S. just Europe, it seems.

 

[Radioactive Ape Colin]

Colin

Your link about Howards copyright affirms that Paradox have fulfilled all of the legal requirements to assert copyright for the next 20 odd years, because of their limited print run of stories (Limited to 11 copies!). This isnt applicable in the U.S. just Europe, it seems.

I read that as only being in regard to the unpublished stories assuming you mean this:

"IMPORTANT EVENT: In March, 2007, Paradox published a very small print run of a volume titled THE LAST OF THE TRUNK OCH BREV I URVAL. This was published in Sweden, with a print run of eleven copies. As with the publication of a tiny print run of a couple volumes of material by the previous owners in 2002, this was an attempt to take advantage of a special copyright law. In this case, in the European Union, there is a rule regarding works that have gone PD without ever being published. That rule states that if the owner of such a work gets that work into print first in the European Union, they will be granted a 25-year “publication right”, which for most purposes is the same as a copyright. This new book by Paradox attempts to include all the previous unpublished works of REH, prose, poetry and letters, and appears to meet all requirements. Hence, most or all of the works listed below as PD in the US that were unpublished in the US as of 1/1/2006 are likely back under copyright in most of Europe, for the next 25 years."

Or did I miss something?

Colin

 

[Demetrio]

Yes, quite clearly it is only the unpublished stories. The Conan storied will still be PD.

 

[warzen]

This was published in Sweden, with a print run of eleven copies.

Does that qualify as a "print" !!??

Anyway, if books can't be sold from amazon.co.uk but only from amazon.com, that's not a bid deal...

W.

 

[Demetrio]

It does count as being published (and necessarily so, to protect self-publishers for instance). Nonetheless it does not affect the PD status of the rest of Howard's writings, including all his Conan stories.

 

[Amaril]

There's a difference between copyright and trademark.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Colin

Sorry, yes, misread it. (In my excitement!). So what ownership do Paradox assert, exactly, then? And their claim has no affect in the States. Are we saying that Conan is Public Domain in the U.K.? :lol:

This is great news. How come Mongoose arent aware of it then? (Or anyone else?).

This is very exciting news if this is the case, for a lot of people, including me! I could publish Conan stories today?

 

[Demetrio]

There is a difference between trademark and copyright. But although Conan is trademarked, Hyborian Age (for instance is not.

Thus an Atlas of the Hyborian Age would be free of trademark violation and also, so long as it drew on exclusively PD material, would not infringe anyone's copyright (in fact it probably wouldn't infringe copyright anyway. Unofficial guides to Middle-earth have been published, using Tolkien's names). As it seem's to me, only the branding of the product as Conan would be a trademark violation.

EDIT: Actually I'm not so sure the Tolkien work I had in mind was not in fact published by Unwin, Tolkien's own publisher and thus copyright was likely not an issue an issue anyway.