[CONAN] NonLethal Damage

[Supplement Four]

A 1st level Soldier is knocked unconscious due to nonlethal damage. It will be one hour before he regains consciousness, according to the rules.

Is there any way, per the rules, to wake this dude up before the hour is up?

Will the heal skill work?

Can you shake him to wake him?

I know I can house rule anything I want. I'm just curious of how the rules handle this situation.




Let's say two 1st level Soldiers get into a brawl in the local tavern. One knocks the other unconscious (nonlethal damage from his fists). The barmaid runs over to the downed man and pours a pitcher of water over the downed fighter's head. Is he still unconscious? Does he have to wait the hour, per the rules?

 

[Supplement Four]

It bothers me a bit that three guys can surround a fourth, kick the victim hard with their boots, over and over, using non-lethal damage, and never do any "real" damage to the guy. They can't beat him to death unless they take a -4 on their attacks (to get lethal damage).



In real life, we certainly can't control how bad we hurt someone if we keep on beating them. The rule in the game can be abused if a players wants an NPC to be unconscious for a long time.



I don't like that a player can count on knocking an NPC out with nonlethal damage. Why can't he hit too hard and crack the guy's skull?







I'm thinking of a simple House Rule to make nonlethal damage unpredictable, like it is in real life. When we kick someone who is on the ground, we don'd know if we've just bruised them or broken a rip that punctures a lung.



Here's what I'm thinking....



All rules remain the same when attempting nonlethal damage except for the damage itself. If total nonlethal damage is an Odd number, then the nonlethal damage is, indeed, nonlethal. If the damage is an Even number, then the damage is considered real lethal damage.



That means that 50% of the nonlethal damage attempted will be real damage.







Think that would work and be a bit more realistic?

 

[Supplement Four]

Well, he will start taking Lethal damage once he in minuses?

That's not the offical rule, is it? I didn't see that in the book.

 

[Supplement Four]

A simple rule would be to throw a d4 with the damage. If the d4 shows a "1", then the damage is lethal. Otherwise, it's nonlethal, as intended.

Do you think 25% of nonlethal damage being lethal is a good number? We could change the percentage by changing the die.





EDIT: If the "1" on the d4 comes up, we could also do half lethal damage.



For example, Frank smacks his opponent with his fist and hits. Damage is 1d3 + STR. He does 5 points of nonlethal damage, but his d4 that he throws with his damage die shows a "1". This means damage is halved and considered lethal damage.



So, the target takes 2 points of lethal damage instead of 5 points of nonlethal damage.

 

[Supplement Four]

IDEA: How about a very low probability of delivering nonlethal damage as long as the target is not helpless (not unconscious or not tied up and can defend himself), then the lethal damage chance increases depending on the victim's state.

If the target is defending himself, lethal damage is 1 in 30 (a reason to use the 30 sider! This is debatable...can be 1 in 20 or 1 in 12, whatever you think).

If the target is unaware of you or tied up, lethal damage is 1 in 4.

If the target is unconscious, lethal damage is 50% (odd damage is lethal, even damage is nonlethal).

How about something like that? Too complicated, or just right?







EDIT: I'm liking the versatile nonlethal damage set-up. I'm envisioning three categories. You've got one where nonlethal damage is very likely (need to determine %); one where nonlethal damage is likely, but there is a decent chance for lethal damage (25%); and one where lethal damage is just as likely as nonlethal damage (50%).

What you choose is based on the circumstances.

You can also change categories based on the weapon you use.

Your fists and feet as weapons normally call for the very likely method. If the target is tied up or unaware of you when you strike, also use the very likely method. But, if the target is unconscious, use the likely method--you skip down one category.

If your victim is bound but conscious. You're torturning him? Beating him? If you use a sap or a bar of lard wrapped in a cloth, these weapons are designed for nonlethal damage, so you use the likely method. But, if you pick up a sword, using the flat side of it, or a bat, skip down a category and use the 50% method, even though you take the -4 attack penlaty to deliever nonlethal damage.

Or, let's say the Crime kingpin orders his men to take you out into the yard and give you a good arse-kicking. They use only their hands and feet. Normally this would be the very likely method, but we skip down a category to the likely method because, for all practical purposes, with that many men around you, the conditions are similar to you being bound and beaten by one man. We use the likely method.

Very likely.

Likely.

Half.

Three nonlethal damage categories based on victim condition and weapon used.







2nd EDIT: If the Half category is 50%, and the Likely category is 25%, then doesn't it seem reasonable that the very likey category is 12.5%?

If so, with the Half category we use the even/odd damage thing (50%). Works well.

With the Likely category, we use the d4 (1 in 4 = 25%).

With the Very Likely category, we use the d8 (1 in 8 = 12.5%)

With each category, the chance for lethal damage doubles.

That seems like a nice rule, eh?

 

[Supplement Four]

What do you think of this?



CATEGORY 1 (12.5%)

Punches, kicks, head butts, elbow strikes, and the like fall into this category.

Adding a weapon to these types of attacks (such as brass knuckles or using a guantlet) means raising the category by one step. Use Category 2.

If you catch your target unaware of you, or if your target is bound, also use Category 2.

If your target is unconscious, use Category 3.

When rolling nonlethal damage, roll a d8 along with the damage. If a "1" shows on the category die, then the damage is considered lethal.





CATEGORY 2 (25%)

Weapons mean to inflict nonleathal damage fall into this category: the whip, sap, and the like.

If your target is unconscious, use Category 3.

When rolling nonlethal damage, roll a d4 along with the damage. If a "1" shows on the category die, then the damage is considered lethal.





CATEGORY 3 (50%)

Weapons meant to inflict lethal damage used to inflict nonlethal damage, such as a club or the flat of a sword blade, fall into this category.

When rolling nonlethal damage, consider any odd result as lethal damage while any damage totalling to an even number is counted as nonlethal damage.





EDIT: In a nutshell--

Normal unarmed attacks do CAT 1 damage.

Unarmed attacks aided by weapons (brass knuckles, gauntlet), weapons designed for nonlethal damge (sap, whip), targets unaware of the attack or bound, all do CAT 2 damage.

Weapons meant for lethal damage used to inflict nonlethal damage, or an unconscious victim, do CAT 3 damage.

 

[Supplement Four]

What specific weapons in the Conan RPG are intended for nonlethal damage only?

There are no notes, as if all weapons are intended for lethal damage.

But, even though there's no note, we know that an unarmed strike is meant for nonlethal damage....so, how do we tell them apart??

 

[Supplement Four]

On the 3.5 PHB weapon chart only 4 weapons are detailed as being meant for nonlethal damage--

From Simple Weapons: The Unarmed Strike.

From Light Melee Weapons: The Sap.

From One Handed Exotic Weapons: The Whip.

From Ranged Exotic Weapons: The Bolas.



Therefore, most weapons in the Conan game are meant for lethal damage.

 

[Supplement Four]

To make this a bit more "simple", maybe we should knock it down to just two categories....



Unarmed attacks and weapons, like the whip and the sap, designed for nonlethal damage, use the d8.

Everything else uses the d4. This includes weapons designed for lethal damage used to inflict nonlethal damage and bound, unaware, or unconscious victims.


I think we're getting closer to a "good" rule?



EDIT: This should be no change to the players. Let the GM roll the d4 or the d8 and inform the players when the damage is lethal.

 

[Supplement Four]

Unarmed attacks and weapons, like the whip and the sap, designed for nonlethal damage, use the d8.

Everything else uses the d4. This includes weapons designed for lethal damage used to inflict nonlethal damage and bound, unaware, or unconscious victims.

I think that, when a character takes a -4 on the attack in order to deliver nonlethal damage (which, under this system, still has a 25% chance of delivering lethal damage) with his weapon, that the character can choose to (before he rolls damage, of course) pull his STR damage bonus by one or all points.

For example, if a character with STR 16 is using a club, and he attempts to deliver nonlethal damage by taking a -4 penalty on his attack throw, then he can also choose to have his +3 STR damage bonus reduced to +2, +1, or +0.

In effect, he's "pulling" his strike.

 

[Supplement Four]

If you're using a weapon that's meant for leathal damage to deliver nonlethal damage (the flat of your sword, let's say), doesn't it stand to reason that you are pulling your strike and your STR bonus should not apply to damage?

If you're using your fists in a brawl, your fists default to delivering nonlethal damage, so your STR bonus would be appropriate.

What do you think?

Thus, with your fists, you'd do 1d3 + STR mod nonlethal damage. But, with a weapon that normally does 1d8 + STR mod lethal damage, you'd do only 1d8 nonlethal damage.





And, another queston: If you've got a dagger, how do you deliver nonlethal damge with it? Using the pommel, not the blade?