Comments on WaW: Pacific & Warbirds

[Wargoat]

Hello there,

I've been out of the forums for a while now, but since I came back, nothing much is happening. I bought the 2 new books for BF:Evo WaW this summer, and we've been using them...not that much since then. I managed to assemble a ''powerful'' IJA army wich is quite ''powerless'' in actual combat! Sice I'm a big fan of CoD: WaW, I really liked the idea of the Pacific War book, I think it's a good addition to the collection(But not compatible with the S&P supplement on Shermans and the U.S. Army Compendium). Then I went through the Warbirds of WW2 book: total waste of paper and ink! In my sense, the Air assets are now getting too much importance in this game. Who wants to play against a B-29 Superfortress unloading a shitload of bombs, maybe even an atomic one, on your head?! That is just out of the scope of this game. I don't see how you can possibly have fun with 90% of the planes listed in this book. There is also the issue about the quality of graphic work in these books. The covers look good but inside...some of the pictures are just unidentifiable! It's just worthless to put a 12 pixel X12 pixel resolution picture that uses half of the page.
If you ask me, I would have prefered to see some Army lists for the Early & Mid war European theatre(France, Germany, Polish, Soviets...)instead of the Warbirds book.
One last thing about consistency(rules, weapons lists, army lists). I can see that you have a proofreader, but I have stopped counting the errors in your books, there are just too many!

 

[Agis]

snip
I bought the 2 new books for BF:Evo WaW this summer, and we've been using them...not that much since then. I managed to assemble a ''powerful'' IJA army wich is quite ''powerless'' in actual combat! Sice I'm a big fan of CoD: WaW, I really liked the idea of the Pacific War book, I think it's a good addition to the collection(But not compatible with the S&P supplement on Shermans and the U.S. Army Compendium).

Hi Wargoat,
I am only going to address the Pacific War feedback, since all the other issues are concerning Matt's Warbirds book or Mongoose responsibility of the book(s) - layout, pics, proofreading etc.

Why is the IJA army powerless?
Why is it not compatible with the U.S. Army Compendium or the S&P article? I can assure you they were written with the same intend, using the same principles and were - more or less - tested by the same people.

Please give me additional feedback.

 

[Joe_Dracos]

I managed to assemble a ''powerful'' IJA army wich is quite ''powerless'' in actual combat! Sice I'm a big fan of CoD: WaW, I really liked the idea of the Pacific War book, I think it's a good addition to the collection(But not compatible with the S&P supplement on Shermans and the U.S. Army Compendium).

As far as the comparison to US and British armour, the BE: pacific has it correct. In the face of allied armour conventional tactics are going to be somewhat useless. The Japanese had nothing to counter allied tank technology. Their own technology is somewhat lacking. As for the CoD:WaW, the balance in that game is for the sake of balancing the two sides and not historical accuracy.

Then I went through the Warbirds of WW2 book: total waste of paper and ink! In my sense, the Air assets are now getting too much importance in this game. Who wants to play against a B-29 Superfortress unloading a shitload of bombs, maybe even an atomic one, on your head?!

I agree with you here, try playing with just the aircraft and set up battles where the US has to escort Bombers in against an enemy city. You'll have to play with a larger table, but it should work out better that way. As for using aircraft such as the B-29, it defenately does not belong on the table with BE: WaW ground troops. Restrict yourselves to the Two engine bombers such as the Mosquito and B-25. Those aircraft were used in that fasion.

If you ask me, I would have prefered to see some Army lists for the Early & Mid war European theatre(France, Germany, Polish, Soviets...)instead of the Warbirds book.

Well it is easier to supplement a current game the rewrite the entirety of it to suit an early or mid war setting. They have to essentially rewrite the ENTIRE army list. We all want it, but we also wanted expanded aircraft lists as well.

 

[Agis]

Thanks Joe, sounds as if I did it right.
But maybe Wargoat can detail his Pacific War feedback a bit. I am always curious to get customer feedback!

 

[Wargoat]

Well, I might have been a bit harsh with my feedback. The WaW game is not that historically accurate: that's up to the players. The game is "balanced" for opposing forces so it stays enjoyable.

Pacific War:

- In the original rulebook, Sherman tanks had a frontal target value of 8+. This made it possible for a Japanese tank to score a lucky hit on the enemy. Now with the value of 9+, only the most powerful Japanese AT guns have a slight chance of hitting the target.

- Other than the sniper, there is no IJA unit with the Ambush special rule. What about the japanese soldiers moving in underground tunnels and traps, jumping out to attack screaming "BANZAI!".

- The Appendix for suitable Vehicule & Air assets at the end of the book should include the ones from Warbirds & the various army Compendiums. I know that the Compendiums are not "official" for Mongoose publishing, but maybe Agis can make this list available.

Warbirds of WW2:

- The book states that it contains all aircraft from every period of the war. Well, what about the Ju87G wich was armed with two Bordkanone BK3,7 canon, a plane piloted by the famous Hans-Ulrich Rudel, who destroyed a massive number of Soviet vehicules and armor. And what about the Hs129B-3 wich carried the huge Bordkanone BK7,5 canon just to name a few...

- I don't see the point of making Early and Mid war vehicule lists if there is no such lists for "foot soldiers". The "foot soldier" is, in my mind, the core of any WW2 army and seems to be left aside.

- I think that the only really useful units in this book could have been the subject of some S&P articles instead of using a full supplement book.

 

[Agis]

I am again not commenting on Warbirds, out of scope for me.

Pacific War:
- In the original rulebook, Sherman tanks had a frontal target value of 8+. This made it possible for a Japanese tank to score a lucky hit on the enemy. Now with the value of 9+, only the most powerful Japanese AT guns have a slight chance of hitting the target.

Absolutely deliberate and intended. The original rulebook stats were a bit off, which led to the S&P article and the updates in my Vehicle Compendiums. The M4A2 or MA3R3 Sherman of the Pacific War book are also already "up to date".
It also sounds right as far as I am concerned. The above mentioned situation led the Japanese to the Pole mine and other desperate measures. But a Sherman was a fearsome opponent in the pacific theatre right to the end of the war. As far as games are concerned I do not see any problems, all the changes are represented in the points, you can certainly filed more Japanese Armour, or?

- Other than the sniper, there is no IJA unit with the Ambush special rule. What about the japanese soldiers moving in underground tunnels and traps, jumping out to attack screaming "BANZAI!".

But that is not unbalancing the games or making the Japanese “powerless” or?
If you want an all hidden army, just give them all the Ambush special rule after agreement form your opponent, or use more fortifications.

- The Appendix for suitable Vehicule & Air assets at the end of the book should include the ones from Warbirds & the various army Compendiums. I know that the Compendiums are not "official" for Mongoose publishing, but maybe Agis can make this list available.

Well Pacific War was written before Warbirds. Since I am thinking about a dedicated 15mm "up-pimped" Pacific War A.D.Publishing book (including more vehicles and the complete Chinese army lists!) at the moment, I may include a suitable list for all the vehicles of the Compendiums.


Hope that helps!

 

[Agis]

- I don't see the point of making Early and Mid war vehicule lists if there is no such lists for "foot soldiers". The "foot soldier" is, in my mind, the core of any WW2 army and seems to be left aside.

One more comment here: All in good time.
The Pacific War book has already done that - infantry lists for Early, Mid and Late War!

I do not know about Matt’s plans, but I will eventually bring out more infantry lists. But it depends also on my interests and the sales numbers. I have sold 7x as much German Vehicle Compendium as Chinese Army books...

 

[Joe_Dracos]

Pacific War:

- In the original rulebook, Sherman tanks had a frontal target value of 8+. This made it possible for a Japanese tank to score a lucky hit on the enemy. Now with the value of 9+, only the most powerful Japanese AT guns have a slight chance of hitting the target.

You should be thankful then that you can damage them with ATG's cause the Japanese are not supposed to be able to do that. British and American players are in the same boat when dealing with German vehicles (tigers and what not). Do you not have any air assets you can purchase? (haven't seen the book yet).

- Other than the sniper, there is no IJA unit with the Ambush special rule. What about the japanese soldiers moving in underground tunnels and traps, jumping out to attack screaming "BANZAI!".

Ah the banzai attack. It wasn't really used in the fashion your describing it. Underground tunnels were predominately on Iwo Jima and Okinawa, thats half the battles against the Americans and the Brits and Chinese did not encounter that. If you want to do a Banzai attack, the next time your fighting shermans buy lots and lots of cheap infantry (hopefully you get anti-tank mines with them) and charge head long into the tank and its supporting infantry.

Warbirds of WW2:

- The book states that it contains all aircraft from every period of the war. Well, what about the Ju87G wich was armed with two Bordkanone BK3,7 canon, a plane piloted by the famous Hans-Ulrich Rudel, who destroyed a massive number of Soviet vehicules and armor. And what about the Hs129B-3 wich carried the huge Bordkanone BK7,5 canon just to name a few...

I can't say for sure why they didn't include all of the aircraft available. Perhaps they realized what an astromically large book it would make and changed their minds and forgot to change that sentance. I really don't know.

- I don't see the point of making Early and Mid war vehicule lists if there is no such lists for "foot soldiers". The "foot soldier" is, in my mind, the core of any WW2 army and seems to be left aside.

It seems that I did not convey my thoughts properly. I didn't mean just vehicles and aircraft, I actually meant foot soldiers as well. Personally I would rather get an expansion on some of the other forces first. Canada (which aren't just British troops by any other name), Romainia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Finland, Free French. There are a lot of small armies that can probably make a book on their own. The Canadian forces really needs to be written up. Yeah, that would be awesome.