Democratus
Mongoose
Good idea! I suppose it would be enough for one ship to get a re-roll on "Track that Target" and a second ship to get Priority Fire/i]. No need to simply have one ability that is spammed.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Command Points: Possibilities
- Thread starter Democratus
- Start date
Mean Mutton
Mongoose
Democratus said:
Squadron up! If you have a CQ of 2 or 3, you probably have another ship floating around with a CQ of a 5 or 6. While they're squadroned, you get to use that 5 or 6 instead of the 2 or 3 and Track That Target becomes MUCH easier.
Democratus
Mongoose
Squadrons are great for CQ checks, but they make the init sink problem even worse. The first battle I had against EA Early with my dilgar my opponent used squadrons for this very purpose. I had him beat so bad with init sinks that nothing larger than a Patrol level ship was ever in his FA after the first turn.
At least with a command-induced "move & shoot" order at least one ship will be nearly guaranteed to get a shot off with its primary weapon each turn, until the command ship is eliminated.
Maybe this will turn out to be a bad idea. I'm not entirely sure yet. But we are definately going to playtest it a bit, because I don't want to loose players due to the init sink issue.
There could be another approach I thought of recently. What if you could use one of your command points to nominate an enemy ship that must move first? Would that be too powerful?
At least with a command-induced "move & shoot" order at least one ship will be nearly guaranteed to get a shot off with its primary weapon each turn, until the command ship is eliminated.
Maybe this will turn out to be a bad idea. I'm not entirely sure yet. But we are definately going to playtest it a bit, because I don't want to loose players due to the init sink issue.
There could be another approach I thought of recently. What if you could use one of your command points to nominate an enemy ship that must move first? Would that be too powerful?
Mean Mutton
Mongoose
Democratus said:Squadrons are great for CQ checks, but they make the init sink problem even worse. The first battle I had against EA Early with my dilgar my opponent used squadrons for this very purpose. I had him beat so bad with init sinks that nothing larger than a Patrol level ship was ever in his FA after the first turn.
At least with a command-induced "move & shoot" order at least one ship will be nearly guaranteed to get a shot off with its primary weapon each turn, until the command ship is eliminated.
Maybe this will turn out to be a bad idea. I'm not entirely sure yet. But we are definately going to playtest it a bit, because I don't want to loose players due to the init sink issue.
There could be another approach I thought of recently. What if you could use one of your command points to nominate an enemy ship that must move first? Would that be too powerful?
No offense to your opponent, but was he just very bad at the game? It's not that difficult to figure out where an Orestes or Nova or Explorer or Avenger is going to be. They're slow and lumbering. A Hyperion has a bit of speed and maneuverability but if you have enough ships, you should be able to blanket an area with a pentacon to make sure that you have a shot at one of them. If they're just using a ton of Patrol and Skirmish level ships, that's an entirely different issue, and not really an initiative sink but rather a swarm problem.
Plus, my favorite tactic -- Four Jashakar frigates and an Ochlavita Ki together in a pentacon with the Jashakar used as suicide attackers.
Mean Mutton
Mongoose
I don't mean to be argumentative. I'm just saying that perhaps the initiative sink issue isn't as unballanced as letting ships fire during movement.
I did also wonder is there were any ISD issues re the sinking problem - where you still only using ships with an ISD of upto 2232?
The skirmish level Rail Hyperion is a great ship for Early EA and makes a huge difference to the game they play I feel. Durable (raid level damage with interceptors) and with respectable firepower that is not boresighted plus a fighter gives flexibility.
Also EA has twofers and in low level games should mean the in sink position is reversed or at least helped? In higher games even squadroned together or a Hermes is very useful. Narn also have twofers - damn hard to kill ones at that.........
Its also worth rembering that the hyperion has a rear boresight beam which I have often been caught by or risked in preference to front bore.
Did you have any issues with Iniative sinking in Centauri versus Dilgar?
I am not saying don't test it - I am looking forward to hearing how it works
The skirmish level Rail Hyperion is a great ship for Early EA and makes a huge difference to the game they play I feel. Durable (raid level damage with interceptors) and with respectable firepower that is not boresighted plus a fighter gives flexibility.
Also EA has twofers and in low level games should mean the in sink position is reversed or at least helped? In higher games even squadroned together or a Hermes is very useful. Narn also have twofers - damn hard to kill ones at that.........
Its also worth rembering that the hyperion has a rear boresight beam which I have often been caught by or risked in preference to front bore.
Did you have any issues with Iniative sinking in Centauri versus Dilgar?
I am not saying don't test it - I am looking forward to hearing how it works
Democratus
Mongoose
Certainly there are some things one can do to mitigate the init sink issue. But it also means you can't always play the fleet you want. Our resident EA player prefers to play a fleet of Hyperions centered around an Orestes with some Olympus Gunships and scouts in the mix. Da Boss is also correct in that we had some serious restrictions on the year as our campaign was played in 2232 (no Hyperion-C, no Aurora Starfury, etc.).
But I do find it a fundamental flaw that swarms are so superior to big ships - especially given what we see on the show (lots of big slow ships slugging at each other).
My Centauri opponent only learned the love of the Kutai very late in the campaign. He was fielding Sulust/Vorchan/Maximus/Primus almost exclusively in the early-mid turns.
My fleet was nearly 75% Jashakar pentacons led by Ochlavita-Ki. I was filling the sky with torpedo and scout ships and forcing my enemy to commit all their best forces before I moved my primary ships (Omelos/Targrath) into firing position. This often led to me firing unanswered shots at the enemy as I either stayed in the 18"-24" bracket with missiles or dashed forward out of the FA of the Sulust/Maximus/Vorchan ships to engage with turrets. I suffered horrendus losses to my patrol ships (nearly 80%!) but they were easily replaced given the territory I captured through victory.
I agree about the fleet composition suggestions given here. I love the Rail Hyperion. The Missile Hyperion and Saggitarius acquitted themselves well in campaign - so I always rammed them at first opportunity.
The real point of frustration for my players is that they want to be able to choose a fleet that consists primarily of ships from the show and still be competitive. They don't want to be forced to buy a swarm to have a balanced shot at victory.
If that means that we institute a rule where - so long as the flagship is active - a single enemy vessel can move and shoot all at once, maybe it's worth it. It will certainly give me motivation to kill those Command Omegas and Warlocks. It even makes the G'Tan a better ship to purchase than the G'Quan, and that may be worth the price of admission!
But I do find it a fundamental flaw that swarms are so superior to big ships - especially given what we see on the show (lots of big slow ships slugging at each other).
My Centauri opponent only learned the love of the Kutai very late in the campaign. He was fielding Sulust/Vorchan/Maximus/Primus almost exclusively in the early-mid turns.
My fleet was nearly 75% Jashakar pentacons led by Ochlavita-Ki. I was filling the sky with torpedo and scout ships and forcing my enemy to commit all their best forces before I moved my primary ships (Omelos/Targrath) into firing position. This often led to me firing unanswered shots at the enemy as I either stayed in the 18"-24" bracket with missiles or dashed forward out of the FA of the Sulust/Maximus/Vorchan ships to engage with turrets. I suffered horrendus losses to my patrol ships (nearly 80%!) but they were easily replaced given the territory I captured through victory.
I agree about the fleet composition suggestions given here. I love the Rail Hyperion. The Missile Hyperion and Saggitarius acquitted themselves well in campaign - so I always rammed them at first opportunity.
The real point of frustration for my players is that they want to be able to choose a fleet that consists primarily of ships from the show and still be competitive. They don't want to be forced to buy a swarm to have a balanced shot at victory.
If that means that we institute a rule where - so long as the flagship is active - a single enemy vessel can move and shoot all at once, maybe it's worth it. It will certainly give me motivation to kill those Command Omegas and Warlocks. It even makes the G'Tan a better ship to purchase than the G'Quan, and that may be worth the price of admission!
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