Clarification of Magic Attack Roll

[thelevitator]

I'm working VERY hard to convert my current DM Genie to work with the Conan ruleset. Since I don't have anyone around here to play with, getting a grip on the Conan variations to Core D20 is a little hard for me.

It looks like spellcasting is much like Psionics, so that part will be easy. My question is about the Magic Attack Roll. It looks to me to be the same thing as the Opposed Defense Roll variant in the DMG. Rather than a static spell DC (10 + relevant modifiers), the sorcerer rolls d20 in place of the 10 for each spell and adds their relevant modifiers. If I'm understanding it correctly, this will be very easy to implement into DM Genie. I just wanted to be clear that I'm understanding it correctly.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Yeah pretty much, except there aren't spell levels to add.
Your Magic Attack roll is made up of:

d20 + Magic Attack Bonus + CHA modifier

so it's analogous to a regular melee or ranged attack, which goes:

d20 + Base Attack Bonus + STR or DEX modifier

The difference between the two types is that the Magic Attack roll is opposed by a Saving Throw, whereas the mundane Attack roll just targets a fixed Defense value by default.

 

[thelevitator]

Thanks so much for the quick reply, Clovenhoof! I can't tell you how excited I've been to get a Conan campaign going! I've been sitting on my Conan material for almost a year, but only recently started working on making DM Genie work with the Conan ruleset. It's been a massive undertaking, but it's teaching me a lot about Conan, piece by piece.

Since I've got an ear here, I'd like to know if our Combat Fatigue system would work well in a Conan setting. It's basically a fatigue system that is related to HP loss. We play a very gritty system as is, and it seems to fit in well. It would be great if we could carry it over into the Conan setting.

Here's the skinny:

Battle Fatigue is meant ot be a representation of the cumulative effects of stress, physical strain and physical damage during combat. It's also related to our Relative Health color coding, where we use a color code around PC/NPC/monster tokens to indicate their relative condition during combat. (I use Maptools as a virtual tabletop at both my tabletop and online games). Here is how they work together:

76-100% of total HP = Green = Healthy

51-75% of total HP = Yellow = Light Battle Fatigue (-1 STR, -1 DEX)

26-50% of total HP = Orange = Moderate Battle Fatigue (-2 STR, -2 DEX)

1-25% of total HP = Red = Heavy Battle Fatigue (-4 STR, -4 DEX)

We combine this with the Opposed Defense Roll, Class Defense Bonus and Armor as DR in our current 3.5 campaign. Since this we are currently playing something similar to Conan, would this work well in conjunction with the Conan rules?


EDIT> I forgot to mention that I have this scripted into DM Genie so it calculates and applies these conditions automatically. Actually, I have every aspect of our game scripted into DM Genie, which is why I love using DM Genie so much. It takes care of the mechanics so that I can focus on giving descriptions.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Ideas like that have been discussed very often on this board, without a real general consensus. Your players may be already used to wound penalties, but the Conan universe has a different feel to it.

The major point against penalties such as these is that player characters in Conan are supposed to be _Heroes_, and as such do heroic stuff, take great risks and attempt outrageous stunts. If the players fear the penalties for losing a few HP, they will be more careful and avoid risks. That's not the idea of the game. Conan is more like the game where a disabled character (0 HP) downs a Flagon of Wine (which restores him to 1HP) and lunges back into the fray like there was no tomorrow.

Wound-based penalties result in a death spiral. Once you're wounded and get a penalty, you can't defend yourself as well, which means you're more likely to get hurt even more, and so on. The lesson the player takes from this is: don't get hurt. Wear the heaviest armour possible. Hide behind a large shield. Use Combat Expertise all the time. That doesn't make for terribly exciting battles.

I'm toying with the idea of wound penalties for the absolut rock-bottom, i.e. 5HP or less, to reflect being on your last leg, but I'd definitely not cripple a character who has a significant amount of HP left.
Hope that helps. ^^

 

[thelevitator]

That helps a lot! It's definitely hard to find that line between gritty and fatal. I'm about halfway there to doing the conversion, so I plan to leave it out initially and learn the system the way it written first to get a feel for it. One thing that makes PC's less squishy in our game is that you get bonus feats every other level (plus a bonus regional feat @1st) instead of every 3 levels, and we do ability points every 3 levels instead of every 4. And I give ability points to every attribute @6th, 12th, and 18th (which looks similar to Conan).

Another thing we instituted is an expanded masterwork weapon system. We still have the traditional "masterwork" weapons which are +1 to hit. But I've added Fine (+1/+1), Remarkable (+2/+2), and Exquisite (+3/+3) masterwork items, which are priced at 1/2 of their magical counterparts. This was to make + weapons more accessible to lower level characters. And it reduces the need for magical weapons, which goes along with our attempt to create more of a sword and sorcery feel to Core. To pamper my starting PC's even more, they are allowed one special item, worth up to 1100 GP to start with. I've always liked the idea of the special suit of armor or sword passed down from generation to generation. Plus, I too love the idea of my PC's being heroes, and they should have something that sets them apart from everyone else in the world around them. So with all of that, even 1st level characters have quite a few advantages over Core 1st level characters.

I really do appreciate the feedback, because the more I get comfortable with the system, the easier it will be for me to finish inputting all of the information into DM Genie.

Thanks again!

James

 

[Clovenhoof]

Yeah, Conan core characters get benefits pretty close to your houserules. Feats remain at ever 3rd level, but you get up to 3 extra feats for taking levels in your race's favoured class, so that's 10 feats total.

Also, all attributes get a +1 increase at levels 6, 10, 14, 18. So the maximum inherent attribute value without magic tricks is 29 (18 base + 2 racial + 5 indiv. increase + 4 general increase).

Equipment:
Note that in Conan, superior equipment is very restricted, and usually tied to certain regions. The equivalent of Masterwork weapons are Akbitanan weapons (+1 attack, +2AP), and as the name says they are made _only_ in Akbitan. Likewise, superior armour is also tied to certain regions.

Yogah of Yag posted a proposal for relic Acheronian and Atlantean weapons one year ago: Legendary Items
Note that these items would be many thousand years old, and accordingly rare, so they should only be available to characters who have earned it. And even then, it is a boon and a prize, and not a necessity. An Atlantean weapon, obtaining which would be comparable to cracking the 100-million-dollar-jackpot, is comparable stat-wise to a +2 Keen weapon in D&D.

And it reduces the need for magical weapons, which goes along with our attempt to create more of a sword and sorcery feel to Core.

That's all well and good for D&D rules I guess, but in Conan, you won't need it. My first instinct was that it doesn't matter if you call it Magic or Exquisite, special gear is special gear.

The great thing about the Conan engine is that it successfully and completely eliminates item dependency. There is no need for magical weapons or armour at all, nor for calling the same child by another name. You can rob a level 20 character of all his possessions, and he can just grab any old club and join the fray like nothing happened. Besides, it is absolutely typical for Conan characters to frequently lose their stuff.
As slaughterj once put it so brilliantly, "this is not like DnD where you accumulate crap and need it to get by". Standard gear can get you through the entire game. No need to cling to such worldly assets. =)

 

[thelevitator]

Thanks so much for the detailed feedback Clovenhoof. This conversation is really getting me pumped to get my conversion completed so that I can start a Conan campaign.

The whole reason we've instituted many of the changes is that I wanted a game where the heroes are the heroes, and not their crap. That's the main reason I made the ability point and feat progressions faster than Core. I had taken a look at Iron Heroes and at first glance, I really liked it. But the more I read into, the more clunky it seemed and the IH forums are teeming with houserules to fix balance issues.

This conversation has convinced me to run my first Conan campaign by the book, and not use any of our house rules. It will be hard letting go of them at first I'm sure. But if Conan gives us the play experience I'm hoping it will, it won't take long before we aren't missing those little homemade changes.

Thanks again for the insight Clovenhoof!

James