Cimmerian Sorcery

[Yogah of Yag]

Taken from the Marvel Universe website, this is undoubtedly a rare instance of Cimmerian Sorcery, extreme in its requirements. It conflicts with a statement in a supplement, namely: "The Cimmerians have no priests, sorcerors, shamans or witches" (Fiercest, 92).

"(Savage Sword of Conan#157) - A Cimmerian sorcerer, Leir, called down the "Wrath of Crom" on a group of Hyperboreans led by Krakanites. The Hyperboreans had kidnapped the Cimmerians' women, and the Cimmerians had rescued them, but the Hyperboreans had finally managed to catch up with them and threatened to overrun them with superior numbers. The spell, by necessity, was performed within the boundaries of Cimmeria and required the "eyes of a dead enemy, the wings of a raven, the moss from the north side of a tree, and life's blood offered freely.

"For the final requirement, Leir directed his own grandson, Shaun, to run his grandfather through with a sword. Leir leapt atop a burning pyre which exploded with a burst of flame and dark smoke. Legions of dead Cimmerian warriors poured forth from a chasm in the Earth and overran the Hyperboreans. When the black clouds vanished, the Hyperborians all lay dead, but there was not a single mark on them--as if they had been slain by their own fear. "

If anyone has an interest in developing this for the RPG, feel free to post your ideas here.

 

[VincentDarlage]

There were a number of things I disliked about that story when I did my research and chose to discount that tale as horribly non-Canonical.

While it is a neat spell, having Cimmerians involved in native-born necromancy seemed inappropriate (of course, if a Cimmerian left and learned it, that is a different story - but this story makes it appear as if it is a normal bit of magic for Cimmerians in general). Conan claims Cimmeria has oracles and that is about it. An oracle is not necessarily a necromancer.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

There were a number of things I disliked about that story when I did my research and chose to discount that tale as horribly non-Canonical.

Okay. No problem. It's good to get the official stance on the matter.
Thanks.

 

[Vincent791]

Those two words don't get along, it sounds weird.

 

[The King]

I would consider Cimmerian sorcery more related to shamanism and ancestor worship with a little bit of nature enchantment (like the witch who help Conan in the Hour of the Dragon).

 

[René]

There is a Solomon Kane story about a city of Atlanteans in Africa of 16th (?) century (a forgotten colony). Since the Cimmerians of the Hyborian Age are descendants of the Atlanteans, you could use the kind of magic REH describes in the Solomon Kane story (I don't have the delrey book at hand, so I can give you no title).
I think of something like ruins deep in the Cimmerian mountains, shunned by today Cimmerians who don't know that they are the grand-grand...-children of the inhabitants of these ill-famed ruins. There are ghosts and demons supposed to dwell, maybe some undead Atlantean sorcerers bound to the location.
I 'd avoid making the today Cimmerians use magic.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Well, I dont think banning certain class/race combinations outright is a great idea.

I think it's fair to say(from the issue of Savage Sword being referenced) that Cimmerians don't really seem to be aware that they have Sorcerors amongst them, and that they are not "well-respected wise men" in any event.

A situation like the one described (an inborn Cimmerian hatred for magic) would be likley to trigger "Witch Hunts" amongst the varous tribes every time a sorceror was revealed. Also, "sorcery" would be blamed for all manner of poor decisions ("I didn't mean to steal your wife, but Hrothgar ensorcelled me into doing it!...)

 

[The King]

There is a Solomon Kane story about a city of Atlanteans in Africa of 16th (?) century (a forgotten colony). Since the Cimmerians of the Hyborian Age are descendants of the Atlanteans, you could use the kind of magic REH describes in the Solomon Kane story (I don't have the delrey book at hand, so I can give you no title).
I think of something like ruins deep in the Cimmerian mountains, shunned by today Cimmerians who don't know that they are the grand-grand...-children of the inhabitants of these ill-famed ruins. There are ghosts and demons supposed to dwell, maybe some undead Atlantean sorcerers bound to the location.
I 'd avoid making the today Cimmerians use magic.

You idea is interesting don't you forget that the original island was sunk in the cataclysm. The Cimmerians are a colony of the refugees that went to the continent well before the cataclysm (this is explained in some Kull stories).

 

[Raven Blackwell]

You idea is interesting don't you forget that the original island was sunk in the cataclysm. The Cimmerians are a colony of the refugees that went to the continent well before the cataclysm (this is explained in some Kull stories).

I think Howard mentions it in the "Hyborian Age" essay as well. Of course while the colonists devolved below the intellect capable of using magic over the generations it took to become the Cimmerians, they might have left a number of artifacts lying about the wilderness in former Atlantian sites shunned by the Cimmerians as 'unnatural'. If so the Cimmerian tribes then are an unintended guardians of their ancestor's sites, being an obstacle for the foul sorcerers who might want to plunder the sites. Be an interesting adventure though- PCs hired by a scholar- Corrupt or merely curious- to protect him from the Cimmerians long enough to investiagte the site.....

 

[Evil_Trevor]

I notice that we learn of cimmeria through the references made. Precious few times does Howard or the later writers really explore Cimmeria. I would imagine that cimmerians have there 'wise women' and myths. Since a cimmerian can leave and become a thief, a nomad, a pirate even a king then I see no real obstical to one leaving and becoming a sorcerer and then returning of course it might not be a popular move but then thae question becomes "so what are ye gonna be doing 'bout it ?"

 

[Yogah of Yag]

You idea is interesting don't you forget that the original island was sunk in the cataclysm. The Cimmerians are a colony of the refugees that went to the continent well before the cataclysm (this is explained in some Kull stories).

I think Howard mentions it in the "Hyborian Age" essay as well. Of course while the colonists devolved below the intellect capable of using magic over the generations it took to become the Cimmerians, they might have left a number of artifacts lying about the wilderness in former Atlantian sites shunned by the Cimmerians as 'unnatural'. If so the Cimmerian tribes then are an unintended guardians of their ancestor's sites, being an obstacle for the foul sorcerers who might want to plunder the sites. Be an interesting adventure though- PCs hired by a scholar- Corrupt or merely curious- to protect him from the Cimmerians long enough to investiagte the site.....

"artifacts lying about the wilderness"

Sounds very promising for some adventure ideas!
I remember a statement in RoK about the Field of Chiefs in Cimmeria.
Let me see...
Ah, yes. Page 34: "It is dotted with ancient Atlantean stone structures, including the Standing Stone, a central shaft of mossy black rock."
Very tantalizing!
It also says that these stones are adorned with strange geometric designs.
If memory serves me rightly, I once saw photos of ancient Celtic sites (most likely in Ireland), carved with swirling, "solar" designs.

Perhaps these lithic anomalies are the focus of some ancient mystical powers. The site of primaeval sacrifices? Just a place for the Atlanteans to imbibe coffee and chat? Perhaps it was the place of judgement, like the Domarring sites in old Scandinavia...

Was Howard thinking of Stonehenge while writing this? It seems hard to believe that Howard would have never read any reference to this, the world's most famous ancient clock-calendar.

I wonder if any other Members have details about these megalithic sites in the Field of Chiefs...?

I wonder if there were any renderings of the Field of Chiefs in the Marvel Conan comics, or these stones?

 

[VincentDarlage]

Was Howard thinking of Stonehenge while writing this? It seems hard to believe that Howard would have never read any reference to this, the world's most famous ancient clock-calendar.

Howard didn't write that; That reference comes from a pastiche by John Maddox Roberts.

 

[René]

In the recent Legend of Kern-trilogy (which would be better as one volume opera), in the vol.3 there is a mystical ancient site described where the Vanir giant and his sorcerers try some ritual / magic. Could be the location from Maddox' pastiche (I haven't read it).

 

[René]

Well, I dont think banning certain class/race combinations outright is a great idea.

Like always I don't intend to intrude in anyone's game, but the impression I got at least from REH's CONAN stories is that the Cimmerian culture is not concerned with supernatural things of any kind - look e.g. at their view of Crom.

This "better leave the supernatural to its own"-attitude could very well have developed out of their experiences with and memories of their own magical culture of old, i.e. the Atlanteans.

 

[René]

There is a Solomon Kane story about a city of Atlanteans in Africa of 16th (?) century (a forgotten colony). Since the Cimmerians of the Hyborian Age are descendants of the Atlanteans, you could use the kind of magic REH describes in the Solomon Kane story (I don't have the delrey book at hand, so I can give you no title).
I think of something like ruins deep in the Cimmerian mountains, shunned by today Cimmerians who don't know that they are the grand-grand...-children of the inhabitants of these ill-famed ruins. There are ghosts and demons supposed to dwell, maybe some undead Atlantean sorcerers bound to the location.
I 'd avoid making the today Cimmerians use magic.

You idea is interesting don't you forget that the original island was sunk in the cataclysm. The Cimmerians are a colony of the refugees that went to the continent well before the cataclysm (this is explained in some Kull stories).

I don't see where we are contradicting each other, King. :shock:

 

[The King]

I don't see where we are contradicting each other, King. :shock:

I meant the ruins aren't original works and were probably adapted to the new environment, perhaps even including some local folklore.

 

[René]

I don't see where we are contradicting each other, King. :shock:

I meant the ruins aren't original works and were probably adapted to the new environment, perhaps even including some local folklore.

My idea was:
The colonoy was founded when everything in Atlantis was still OK, so the colony included the usual "high magic". When disaster struck Atlantis and refugees came in, magic was forgotten, maybe even banned, because the survivors thought (rightfully?) that magic was responsible for the catastrophe. Additionally they went down the evolutionary ladder. So after some centuries they reached the actual status quo regaring magic and all supernatural things.

 

[The King]

The thing is that I don't know if Atlantis had as high a magic-level as suspected because in Kull time, who is a pure Atlantean, magic isn't as common as in Conan's.
If you've read the 15 or so short stories, magic is very scarce from the human. There is the serpent people and some very powerful magic (the skull of silence or the mirors of Thuzun Tune which make me remember of Carpenter's Prince of Darkness) but there is no sorcerer excepted Thulsa Doom (whose unfinished story was completed by Lin Carter).

BTW it is the 1st time that I see a similarity between both names (Thulsa and Thuzun). Could be interesting to develop this thread because Howard in the Hyborian Age tells of an elder race.

 

[René]

The thing is that I don't know if Atlantis had as high a magic-level as suspected because in Kull time, who is a pure Atlantean, magic isn't as common as in Conan's.
If you've read the 15 or so short stories, magic is very scarce from the human. There is the serpent people and some very powerful magic (the skull of silence or the mirors of Thuzun Tune which make me remember of Carpenter's Prince of Darkness) but there is no sorcerer excepted Thulsa Doom (whose unfinished story was completed by Lin Carter).

BTW it is the 1st time that I see a similarity between both names (Thulsa and Thuzun). Could be interesting to develop this thread because Howard in the Hyborian Age tells of an elder race.

OK, you have me! :wink: Although I read the Kull stories, especially the one at the end of which he flees from Atlantis, somehow I thought of this land as a high magic spot. But on second thinking it would be un-REHian to have the various cataclysms cuased by supernatural means (at least I can't remember him saying so).

 

[The King]

Dale Rippke wrote some interesting essays on lost areas, especially one on the Thurian mysteries (kull epoch) but there are very few thing on Atlantis.
However Howard never mentioned anything special on this island and the power of that time is on the continent and represented by the Western kingdom (Valusia is considered the most powerful).
I just remember from this first story you're refereing to that Atlantis was very mountainous.
I believe however that the power of the shamans and priests were allmighty due to their grip on the draconian laws and superstitions.
In fact I am tempted to believe that the men in the Elfquest series would fit best to represent these people.