Cimmeria book cover is sweet!

[Brisco]

I'm sure this has been asked before, but "Cimmerian". Should it be pronounced with a hard "C" like Cymric, or soft "C" like Ceylon. I prefer to think of Conan as a Celt and can't help pronouncing the "C's" hard. Just one of the things my players have to put up with it.

The book probably gives the correct pronunciation, but I don't have that yet.

Cheers,
Brisco.

 

[kintire]

Celt and Cimmerians (the historic peoples) are hard C, because they are derived from the Greek, so Cimmerian (Hyborian) should probably be hard C too. That said, in English Ci implies soft C (cf City) so as an English word it would be Simmerian. That's how I pronounce it.

Effectively, they are two equally defensible variants. Use whichever you prefer.

 

[Loz]

Interesting note on pronunciation... The word Celt in the UK is pronounced with a hard C, but the Scottish football team, Celtic is pronounced with a soft C.

Personally, I've always pronounced it Simmeria. It seems natural to me and flows better. But no idea how Howard might have pronounced it.

 

[The King]

Interesting note on pronunciation... The word Celt in the UK is pronounced with a hard C, but the Scottish football team, Celtic is pronounced with a soft C.

And when the ball stays on the ground level, it is called soccer (hard C) but when it's in the air (typical Scottish) it is called (flying) saucer.

 

[Hervé]

For what it's worth, in french, we say Seltic and Simmeria, not Keltic or Kimmeria...

 

[Kortoso]

I don't see an issue with the "use every animal part" comment strictly based on the harsh environment of Cimmeria. I could see Cimmerians not wanting to waste any resource based on how limited the available food sources would be in dark, gloomy Cimmeria. I don't think you can use the original stories to dispute the issue either as Howard never had Conan hunting or needing food or other resources provided by a kill.

Also, Cimmerians are proto-Scots, and probably would have some stereotypical frugalness.

 

[Loz]

I don't see an issue with the "use every animal part" comment strictly based on the harsh environment of Cimmeria. I could see Cimmerians not wanting to waste any resource based on how limited the available food sources would be in dark, gloomy Cimmeria. I don't think you can use the original stories to dispute the issue either as Howard never had Conan hunting or needing food or other resources provided by a kill.

Also, Cimmerians are proto-Scots, and probably would have some stereotypical frugalness.

Conan's also an atypical Cimmerian. Though he exhibits the archetypal characteristics, most Cimmerians have no interest in travelling beyond their own borders, and most will never leave their own clans. Mind you, all we have to go on is the stories; all the rest really is pure speculation (says the man who speculated a hell of a lot to get the Cimmeria book written).

 

[Kortoso]

In Beyond the Black River, Balthus sees Conan's horned helmet, which since it doesn't have a crest, Balthus assumes that it was not made in a Hyborian land. Thus we know that Hyborian (eg, Aquilonian) helmets did have crests normally. Besides, the above tale and Frost-Giants Daughter, Conan wore a horned helmet in Queen of the Black Coast.

Hey Kortoso: as I said above, in QotBC and TFGD Conan wears an AEsir "horned helmet"!

I am not sure where you derive "AEsir", but feel free to use your imagination.

For my part, I don't see why I should have a problem with a Cimmerian having a horned helmet. This is a fantasy world; we're not talking about Vikings here.

Here are the actual texts:

QotBC:
"He saw a tall powerfully built figure in a black scale-mail hauberk, burnished greaves and a blue-steel helmet from which jutted bull's horns highly polished."

TFGD:
"Both were tall men, built like tigers. Their shields were gone, their corselets battered and dinted. Blood dried on their mail; their swords were stained red. Their horned helmets showed the marks of fierce strokes. One was beardless and black-­maned. The locks and beard of the other were red as the blood on the sunlit snow."

BtBR:
"That helmet held the other's gaze; it was without a crest, but adorned by short bull's horns. No civilized hand ever forged that head-piece."

 

[Axerules]

I am not sure where you derive "AEsir", but feel free to use your imagination.

Hey Kortoso! I didn't "imagine" anything.

BtBR:"That helmet held the other's gaze; it was without a crest, but adorned by short bull's horns. No civilized hand ever forged that head-piece."

I didn't talk of this yarn. :wink:

I don't remember if we learn where the helm comes from, but anyway REH never speaks of a "Cimmerian horned helmet", am I right? :wink:

QotBC:
"He saw a tall powerfully built figure in a black scale-mail hauberk, burnished greaves and a blue-steel helmet from which jutted bull's horns highly polished."

Kortoso, I wasn't referring to REH's first description of Conan in this yarn. Less than two pages (in "The Coming of...") later, Bob was more specific:

Young in years, he was hardened in warfare and wandering, and his sojourns in many lands were evident in his apparel. His horned helmet was such as was worn by the golden-haired Æsir of Nordheim; his hauberk and greaves were of the finest workmanship of Koth; the fine ring-mail which sheathed his arms and legs was of Nemedia; the blade at his girdle was a great Aquilonian broadsword; and his gorgeous scarlet cloak could have been spun nowhere but in Ophir.

"His horned helmet was such as was worn by the golden-haired AEsir of Nordheim." Pretty definitive, IMO. 8)

TFGD:
"Both were tall men, built like tigers. Their shields were gone, their corselets battered and dinted. Blood dried on their mail; their swords were stained red. Their horned helmets showed the marks of fierce strokes. One was beardless and black-­maned. The locks and beard of the other were red as the blood on the sunlit snow."

Well, REH gives Conan the same helmet as the Vanirs and AEsirs in this yarn.
The Cimmerian wears also an AEsir shield and mail. Does REH ever write about his helm, or any other piece of his outfit whatsoever, being different than those of his AEsir fellow raiders (or Vanir foes)?


AFAIK, there's NO reference to a "Cimmerian" horned helmet in any Conan story, while we know they were worn by Nordheimers.

 

[Kortoso]

PotS:
"The ways of the Aesir were more to my liking."

It's suggested that Conan spent plenty of time among the Aesir. So the suggestion that the horned helmet is Aesir rather than Cimmerian, is a reasonable assumption.

So what does a Cimmerian helmet look like, smarty-pants?

Let's see. All I can come up with is from The Hyborian Age:
"....the Cimmerians, ferocious savages, untamed by the invaders, but advancing rapidly because of contact with them..."
Would they be wearing helmets patterned after those of the Aquilonians, or stolen from them?

 

[Clovenhoof]

I don't know of any REH evidence, but what I'd find pretty cool for Cimmerian helmets would be ones adorned with an animal skull.

 

[The King]

Has anyone already received the book? Is it good or are the Cimmerians too "greeny" to their taste?

 

[Hervé]

I got mine, along with Cities. I can't review the book as I didn't read it yet. The contents seem interesting enough, even if I wasn't too much entranced by the idea of a Cimmeria sourcebook at first. Without surprise, the whole stuff has a very strong Celtic flavour at first glance, so much I felt like flipping through a Slaine supplement!

I'll tell you more about it later...