Centauri Mass Drivers

[nekomata fuyu]

Is the addition of mass drivers to a ship permenant, or is it something that can be changed between battles?
At first I thought it was the former, but then I realised that this would mean that the mass driver ships are nothing more than simple varients, and varients are dealt by having their own entries in the fleet list.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You can swap and change between battles.

 

[Burger]

The rules say that Mass Drivers may be "freely given". It doesn't mention removing them. So I'd say you can fit them freely before any battle you like, but once they are put on they can't change back.

 

[inq101]

I use a house rule where they can be swapped when a ship is sent home OR by spending XP on it instead of using the refit table.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The rules say that Mass Drivers may be "freely given". It doesn't mention removing them. So I'd say you can fit them freely before any battle you like, but once they are put on they can't change back.

I'd argue against that simply because it's quite foolish to fit a weapon of mass destruction with a specialist purpose to a ship and then never remove it. Also, how would it be possible to fit such a weapon but be unable to remove it?

I think the spirit of the rule is to be able to freely give and take away mass drivers in campaign games. After all, who'd ever use them for planetary assaults if they had to be kept for the rest of the campaign? You then have a severely hamstrung Primus. Secundus or Octurion floating about for the rest of the game.

 

[Burger]

I think you are right, the spirit of the rules is that it can be removed at will. But, rules is rules! As Matt always says "play the rules as written"...

 

[Greg Smith]

In rule terms they are freely given, but how much does it affect the ship. Are they modified in less then a week, does it take a ship yard to convert the ship, or is the ship built around the mass driver?

If it takes only a few days, then you can change it freely.
If it needs a shipyard, sending the ship back to base would seem to be the best way to cover it in the rules.
If the ship is built around it, then you should not be able to change it at all.

Fit your houserules to how you believe it is done.

Personally, I think you only time you would select one was if you were playing a one-off planetary assault game.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I think you are right, the spirit of the rules is that it can be removed at will. But, rules is rules! As Matt always says "play the rules as written"...

He does say that, but I don't see the rule as written as stating that mass drivers can't be removed. All it states is that they can be freely given. Anything else is mere implication or interpretation.

 

[Burger]

I think you are right, the spirit of the rules is that it can be removed at will. But, rules is rules! As Matt always says "play the rules as written"...

He does say that, but I don't see the rule as written as stating that mass drivers can't be removed. All it states is that they can be freely given. Anything else is mere implication or interpretation.

Exactly, they can be freely given but it doesn't say they can be removed. Assuming that they can be removed is mere implication.

 

[Sulfurdown]

I use a house rule where they can be swapped when a ship is sent home OR by spending XP on it instead of using the refit table.

For my two cents - I like the idea that they are sent back to Command for such a retrofit for equipment. I'll probably bring this up for vote at the local group!

In terms of the actual rules, the time frame for the Campaigns as written for ACtA might be such that removing mass drivers is impractical. I get the impression it's on short enough of a scale that you aren't even commissioning new ships but requisitioning them from Command and the rest of the fleet not under your control. Kind of like putting an addition on to a house - it can be added relatively quickly but taking it off take twice the time & effort.

 

[Da Boss]

true but there is time to virtually re build your ship from scratch - crippled etc.............

 

[Ripple]

Always look for an enabling rule. ie a rule that say you can.

If you are saying that you can do anything there isn't a rule against you asking for a ton of trouble.

One thing to look at here is that weapons are removed when you add this new system. I would tend to think those weapons are then assigned to other tasks, not kept in some giant bits box waiting for the original ship to return and be refitted again. Naval techs tend not to like do and undoing the same stuff all the time.

Just saying this doesn't seem to be a snap on leggo piece, given the removal of a large number of AD....which would be huge turrets and such right?

Ripple

 

[nekomata fuyu]

With the weapons that are being removed being so common throughout the fleet however, the shipyards would be stupid not to keep replacements on hand, if only for the purpose of repairs. They won't necessarily be the same ones to have come off of the ship, but that isn't really an issue.
This is even assuming that the weapons are removed at all. It wouldn't surprise me if they're just disconnected in order to route enough power to the new rock lobber that's just been bolted to the underside of the vessel...

 

[Shadow Queen]

there is always going to be a suply depo someplace near the front lines

 

[Ripple]

I guess, I'm just not sure they keep ready supplies of mass drivers sitting around.

Not saying it can't be that way at all, just that when you try to imagine taking the turret off a modern battleship to slap in say missile rack, it's not something that is done quickly or easily. It would be major yard work, and the expense of a single such turret means you don't order spares.

It would be kind of like buying a car, and getting all the engine options so you could slap in the one appropriate for the trip. No one does that because, while quicker than building a new car from scratch in some ways, it just isn't effecient.

Ripple

 

[Lord David the Denied]

These are all valid arguments. It seems fair to say that, in campaigns, Primus/Secundus cruisers and Octurion battleships should be assigned mass drivers when they're added to the roster, or sent back to command for the refit. Consequently they'd also be completely repaired and restocked with fighters while away.

Like the man said, it's not likely they'd keep stacks of proscribed WMDs lying about "just in case," the decision to use mass drivers would be taken at the highest levels and such weapons then assigned to the fleet intended to use them.

A fine discussion, everyone.

 

[Greg Smith]

It would be kind of like buying a car, and getting all the engine options so you could slap in the one appropriate for the trip. No one does that because, while quicker than building a new car from scratch in some ways, it just isn't effecient.

I like that analogy.

 

[bridge26]

If you take a look at the ships that carry them in the show the mass drivers appear to be something that is fixed onto the boottom the hull.
To me it appears to be more like a bolt on, take power circuit a and put into socket b and connect fia approite bult bulk heads.

I would be in favour of Mass driver being free to take on and off between campaign turns. As previously stated on this thread you would severly handicap yopu primus otherwise.

 

[Da Boss]

One other thing that occured is that i read somewhere in the ether that the Primus was of Modular design? I do recall the Clans 'Mechs working this way with the ability to swap out weapon systems for different mission profiles and for ease of repairs and I also vaguely recall the Empire in Star wars having somehting similar.

not sure if of any help