Cargo/Customs Question

[Fovean]

Looking for advice/wisdom on how the Imperium would handle the cargo of a passenger who doesn't survive a jump.

Let's say a Low Berth passenger has paid to have a few tons of cargo carried on the ship but doesn't wake up from cold sleep. What happens to their cargo?...

Does it go into storage until family can claim it?

If no family or they can't be found, can the ship's captain claim it? Would the starport take it?

How long before it is considered "free" for the taking?

I assume a Low Passage contract has a sort of 'next of kin' or 'in case of emergency' clause, but paid cargo seems like a different thing.

Lastly, how might this change on a world just across the border, like Pandrin in the Extents or Biter in the Sword Worlds?

Thanks in advance

 

[BP]

There is not only the issue of who 'claims' the possessions, but who claims the bodies!

IMTU, the corpse and possessions would be turned over to local authorities (since this isn't all that uncommon an event). Of course, theft of low berth passengers goods wouldn't be unheard of (any proof to the contrary could be 'lost' or simply substituted - one presumes copies of itinerary and cargo would be required to be filed at departure as 'proof' against such activities becoming too common) - or even the possible actual 'cause of death'.

Which means local officials might require an autopsy to exonerate the crew...

 

[DFW]

I assume a Low Passage contract has a sort of 'next of kin' or 'in case of emergency' clause, but paid cargo seems like a different thing.

Lastly, how might this change on a world just across the border, like Pandrin in the Extents or Biter in the Sword Worlds?

Thanks in advance

In the 3I cargo contracts are made to deliver to a star port. The ship simply delivers the cargo & the body to the star port. The ship has no further responsibility. The gov't probably handles the same way ours does. The "Treasury Dept." holds for a certain time so that a legal claimant con come forward. If after the statutory time limit no one claims, it is liquidated. (Not the body) Those are burned.

Other interstellar gov'ts probably have similar systems. Bureaucracies love creating regulations...

 

[rinku]

In this case, if the passenger was effectively expected to be taking delivery of their own cargo upon debarkation (i.e. no receiving freight contractor), it would depend on what the normal rights and obligations for low berth passengers are.

There would be some kind of waiver signed by the passenger, which may deal with the matter. There would also be safeguards against fraud and malpractice on the ship's part. I would think that one of the basic safeguards is to remove temptation and send all possessions of the deceased to an independent authority, in this case probably an office of the starport authority. Imperial Trustee's Department or something. They would then conduct the execution of the estate; in the event of no will and no identifiable heirs I'd expect the posessions to be sold by public auction and the proceeds put into the public purse.

As BP said, there'd usually be an autopsy. Even if the crew didn't do the revival (i.e. a starport doc is contracted to come aboard and do it), they have been responsible for maintaining the low berths for a week and may be guilty of negligence or malpractice - a waiver wouldn't be expected to cover manslaughter or murder. It's a bit of an oversight in the required crew rules that no medic is required to carry low passengers. IMTU this is not the case.

 

[DFW]

Contrary to DFWs claim cargo in the 3I is not automatically "delivered to a star port".

Per RAW, that is the standard. Yes, if special arrangements are made it can be anything. But, per standard freight rules it is star port to star port....

 

[DFW]

One can interpret the rules that way. But the MGT rules are not all that specific where delivery takes place. So this is less "da rules" and more "each GMs choice"

Well, I'm talking about DELIVERY. Star ships don't cruise down the streets on planets dropping off cargo door to door. They land at star ports and off load cargo. Unless, I missed something...?

 

[phavoc]

Looking for advice/wisdom on how the Imperium would handle the cargo of a passenger who doesn't survive a jump.

Let's say a Low Berth passenger has paid to have a few tons of cargo carried on the ship but doesn't wake up from cold sleep. What happens to their cargo?...

I'd say if the crew were very legit, they would turn over the cargo and body to the local port authorities and be done with it. Now, if the cargo was hazardous or locally unpalatable, maybe the port would refuse to accept it... which could make for an interesting adventure.

Does it go into storage until family can claim it?

It should, temporarily. With the time it takes for messages to get back and forth, it could be months, conceivable years before someone makes it back to the port. Most places are only going to hold cargo for so long before disposing of it. Money can be sent along to the next of kin, assuming they know who it is. And remember that some cargo's are perishable, so there may be incentive to get rid of it sooner rather than later.

If no family or they can't be found, can the ship's captain claim it? Would the starport take it?

Today the idea of a captain taking cargo from a dead passenger is pretty much unacceptable. Creates too much conflict of interest issues... Also governments are typically the ones who are going to ensure that the sale of any unclaimed good goes to the people rather than individuals.

How long before it is considered "free" for the taking?

Should be never, since it, again in theory, should be turned over to the local authorities so the ship can wash its hands of the matter. They got their credits by transporting it to the destination.

I assume a Low Passage contract has a sort of 'next of kin' or 'in case of emergency' clause, but paid cargo seems like a different thing.

It's safe to assume that, but who knows how accurate or complete their information is. It's quite possible that the heirs may never get notified, especially if any sort ot time has passed and they have moved theirselves.

Lastly, how might this change on a world just across the border, like Pandrin in the Extents or Biter in the Sword Worlds?

Would depend probably on the current state of hostilities between the two. Bureaucracies are going to take a while to change, and once they get in a habit, they'll tend to stay doing something. But they will also get complacent, and I'm sure no Sword World customs official is going to bat an eye if an Imperial citizen's belongings don't make it back to his/her heirs.

 

[MarkB]

One can interpret the rules that way. But the MGT rules are not all that specific where delivery takes place. So this is less "da rules" and more "each GMs choice"

Well, I'm talking about DELIVERY. Star ships don't cruise down the streets on planets dropping off cargo door to door. They land at star ports and off load cargo. Unless, I missed something...?

Well, starports don't generally provide free storage space, so once it's offloaded someone has to either take it away or pay for it to be kept. Depending upon the legal set-up, it may very well be that the starship's operators are still legally responsible for the cargo (and any fees it incurs) until a client takes delivery of it.

There almost certainly are legal provisions for disposition of unclaimed goods, but they're unlikely to add up to something as simple as "it stops being your problem the moment it leaves your cargo hold".

 

[DFW]

A lot. Cargo delivery is NOT restricted to what the ship can do nor is the ship restricted to the Imperial STARPORT. Depending on the contract landing on a SPACEPORT or even "in the wilds", using a shuttle or an air/raft may all be part of the contract.

Really? Since I missed it can you point out in the books where I can get more info?

 

[rinku]

Mm. I'm with DFW on this one. Normal freight belongs to someone else and you're contracted to pick it up and deliver it. It would be very unusual for this not to be port to port. You might turn up and find a war going on and not be able to deliver it, or something, but that's adventure fodder, not routine trading.

Cargo owned by a person travelling on the ship (passenger, owner) is generally the responsibility of that person. Special contract deliveries (i.e. patron stuff) can have any strings attached, but none of that is really relevant to the topic at hand. It's important not to confuse freight with speculative cargo, which may well have to be picked up from some obscure location or delivered to some buyer halfway round the planet (at the Referee's discretion. Even here, most likely the pickup and delivery will be still be at the starport). In the former case you are being paid to haul it; in the latter case you *own* it.

By default, normal freight is picked up from and delivered to the port.

 

[phavoc]

By default, normal freight is picked up from and delivered to the port.

That's not an entirely accurate statement. If you are talking (and we'll use modern equivalents here) of freight shipped via ocean-going ship from port to port, then yes, that is correct.

But if you are talking about freight in general, that is incorrect. ALL freight, in general, is moved via a variety of manner. For example, it would not be unheard of for:

1) a company in China to create a product and have the cargo picked up by a freight forwarding company
2) the freight forwarding company takes it to its hub, where its routed and transloaded into an ocean-going container
3) the freight forwarding company takes the container to a shipping port for pickup
4) the yard trucks find the trailer and haul it to the ship, where a crane picks up the container and loads it onboard
5) the ship departs the port and sets sail for long beach
6) the ship arrives at long beach and is unloaded by crane onto a trailer that is immediately transloaded onto a waiting double-stack rail car
7) the railroad moves the entire train to dallas, tx for delivery
8) the container is unloaded at the rail depot, put on a trailer and parked.
9) an over-the-road truck comes to pick up the container and delivers it to tyler, tx (approx 3hrs away) to a distribution hub and parks it
10) the distribution hub trucks pick up the trailer and tow it to the warehouse where it is unloaded.

and etc... until you finally pick up your Ipod that was in box originally shipped from China. And there are myriad of other ways for goods to be moved.

I would suspect in Traveller you are going to have the same thing, if slightly altered. You are going to have orbital depots, in-system transports, cargo lighters to deliver from station to station, or station to planet, smaller starships may actually deliver their own cargo and bypass the main startport, etc. Without the transporters of Star Trek, there isn't going to be a huge difference, just a few slightly different mechanisms and check points.

 

[DFW]

By default, normal freight is picked up from and delivered to the port.

That's not an entirely accurate statement. If you are talking (and we'll use modern equivalents here)

Good points. However, we are talking about assumptions in the MGT game. Specifically, the hauling of freight by TRAMP ships in Traveller (not shipping conglomerates) for pay.

 

[rinku]

By default, normal freight is picked up from and delivered to the port.

That's not an entirely accurate statement. If you are talking (and we'll use modern equivalents here) of freight shipped via ocean-going ship from port to port, then yes, that is correct.

Yeah, I was really just talking about the role of the starship and its crew, which is what basic Traveller covers.

Might be an interesting variant to run a game where the players are running on-planet cargo delivery instead of interplanetary, owning a big grav truck instead of a starship.

 

[DFW]

Might be an interesting variant to run a game where the players are running on-planet cargo delivery instead of interplanetary, owning a big grav truck instead of a starship.

As long as the grav truck is brown.

 

[phavoc]

By default, normal freight is picked up from and delivered to the port.

That's not an entirely accurate statement. If you are talking (and we'll use modern equivalents here)

Good points. However, we are talking about assumptions in the MGT game. Specifically, the hauling of freight by TRAMP ships in Traveller (not shipping conglomerates) for pay.

I would suspect that tramp freighters would be far more likely to deliver their cargo to more various locations than the shipping conglomerates. A 200ton Free Trader is going to be able to deliver their cargo just about anywhere they are allowed to land on a planet or in a system. One of the big freighters is just going to be doing the port-to-port run, and how the cargo gets to its ultimate destination is gonna be someone else's concern.

Big freighters are only going to carry big cargoes, or lots of little cargos that are conglomerated into bigger containers. Tramp freighters will rarely get big cargoes, so it seems logical that they are going to have to be more flexible for delivery than the big boys.

 

[phavoc]

Might be an interesting variant to run a game where the players are running on-planet cargo delivery instead of interplanetary, owning a big grav truck instead of a starship.

As long as the grav truck is brown.

Hey, they could be all-white... "StellX - When It Positively Has To Get There In an Hour"

 

[DFW]

Might be an interesting variant to run a game where the players are running on-planet cargo delivery instead of interplanetary, owning a big grav truck instead of a starship.

As long as the grav truck is brown.

Hey, they could be all-white... "StellX - When It Positively Has To Get There In an Hour"

:lol:

 

[Fovean]

Good thoughts, everyone, thanks.

I think I've realized Imperial starports would hold the cargo for a set amount of time, thinking one month per parsec that the carrying ship just jumped. Then they put out word of the death and the cargo through normal Imperial channels; probably not X-Boat but definitely government comm networks. First alert would go to the system the ship jumped from. Family can then send word through the same channels of what to do with the cargo or when they'll pick it up.

The next of kin would be charged for storage and messaging of course...

Foreign ports would be similar but depend on the polity. I think Vargr would throw it to the next pack of kin (business, religious, etc) or claim it as salvage, Swordies would hold it like Imperials but for a shorter length of time, Sollies might auction it immediately for the greater good, etc etc

 

[simonh]

Good thoughts, everyone, thanks.

I think I've realized Imperial starports would hold the cargo for a set amount of time, thinking one month per parsec that the carrying ship just jumped. ...

They wait a month before telling anyone what had happened because...?

I think the word would go out immediately, and can't see why they wouldn't use the X-boat network where it's available. Storage and recovery of the deceased's person and goods would be covered by standard travel insurance policies. Traveller passage contracts are highly standardised and regulated so I can't imagine such a common occurrence would be a problem except in unusual circumstances ("Oh my god, someone just nuked the starport!"; "What do you mean we just missjumped into a Red Zone?"; "That's odd, when I put him into cold sleep I could have sworn he wasn't an albeno woman.").

On the more general question of the collection and delivery point for goods, I'd say that the standard Traveller trading rules in the main book are for starport-to-starport collection and delivery of goods. Contracts with different terms are perfectly reasonable, and great adventure-fodder, but non-standard terms would need to be negotiated with the captain and would generaly command a premium.

Simon Hibbs

 

[DFW]

On the more general question of the collection and delivery point for goods, I'd say that the standard Traveller trading rules in the main book are for starport-to-starport collection and delivery of goods. Contracts with different terms are perfectly reasonable, and great adventure-fodder, but non-standard terms would need to be negotiated with the captain and would generaly command a premium.

Simon Hibbs

Correct. Those special cases would probably be part of a specific adventure rather than the day to day activities of a Trader/Freight hauler.