Can we now have more interesting Ancients?

[alex_greene]

Of course, the most intriguing - and perhaps chilling - aspect of the Ancients is the lesson this can impart on the characters.

Namely, that here once stood a vast, aloof, incredibly advanced alien species. They possessed technologies beyond any you can imagine. They shifted entire planets out of their orbits and placed them in Kemplerer rosettes, kindled suns from gas giants, stripped the crusts and mantles of rocky worlds, built Ringworlds and toyed with antimatter.

They could have achieved immortality. But now they are gone, and all that remains is ruination and wreckage.

"Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair," indeed.

It puts the characters' efforts to locate Artifacts somewhat into perspective, rather like the efforts of bugs to find tasty flesh in a rotting corpse.

 

[Anonymous]

According to CT's Alien Module 5 "Droyne" book p6-7 the Droyne were in a period of decline until about -75,000 PI. The Droyne had lost the ability to caste and were headed to extinction (according to Imperial scientists). When the coyns appeared on twenty different Droyne worlds the decline stopped and over the course of a couple of tens of thousand years they slowly regained technology. The Droyne on those worlds explain the recovery on the appearance of a mythical god-like figure called Yaskoydray (Grandfather). Imperial scientists and researchers dismiss this explanation. In their opinion the most likely explanation is that one of these twenty worlds developed spaceflight several thousand years ago and then lost it before the present.

My explanation is that Yaskoydray stayed in his pocket universe until visited by Travellers according to Adventure 12 "Secret of the Ancients". After this brief visit Yaskoydray decided to come out of his pocket universe since he had not done so since the Final Wars 300,000 years ago. He found that five new spacefaring races had expanded across 'Charted Space' and was very impressed by their advancement. This originally had occurred in a different timeline where the Droyne had become extinct. Heartbroken that his race had not survived he went back in time and changed history. He picked the twenty Droyne worlds most likely to survive if assisted and introduced the coyns. For inspiration he chose to put the five new spacefaring races and his own race on the new coyns to be used to caste in the new Droyne societies he would help re-create. Over the course of several thousand years he continued to assist these twenty Droyne worlds until he was sure of their survival. Yaskoydray then proceed to go forward in this new timeline to see the results of his intervention. Satisfied he returned to his pocket universe. This new timeline is the one the PC's know. In fact nobody (except for Yaskoydray) knows of this change nor will ever know of it. The six races on the coyns mystery will never be solved by inhabitants of this timeline.

Nice!

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

One issue for me is that the Droyne are just so damned dull. They're an irrelevance on every level - they do nothing in the setting, don't run an empire, aren't major enemies, don't have wars... there's no reason to really raise them above any of the myriad of inconsequential minor races. So what if they were the Ancients (or at least, were enslaved by the Ancients)? They're a far cry from that now (and have nothing to say about it anyway).

If I had my way, I'd ditch the droyne completely (or make them an actual Minor Race) and come up with more varied, more interesting, and more mysterious Precursor races. I like how the First Ones from Sigma 357 were handled in Babylon 5... just popping by in their gigantic mothership every now and then, completely ignoring the insignificant humans and other races, doing their own thing, and not being explained much.

In my version of the OTU, the Droyne are not as passive as they have been portrayed in the published material.

There is a REASON why the two Droyne worlds in the Five Sisters subsector are surrounded by Imperial Naval Bases. There is a nasty little brushfire war going on there trying to keep those two Droyne worlds from expanding into an Empire of there own... The new Psion book has given me some very nasty ideas about this.

 

[BP]

See, this is what happens when an author includes a Mary Sue

And thus we discover Grandfather's true name is Mark.. er.. uhm.. Marty Stu!? :roll:

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Actually in my Traveller universe, I have stated that the present day Droyne race once were more like human's in that they didn't cast at all. That fact made them extremely unpredictable and dangerous.

Penn

 

[dayriff]

In my Traveller Universe, I don't have "Ancients". I have Forerunners, after Andre Norton's take on the subject. The galaxy is an old place, and there have been many civilizations, both planet-bound and space-faring. All of them to some extent build off each other, and there are worlds where you can find ruins from different alien civilizations layered on top of each other, like one of those older European cities.

Some Forerunners were more advanced than the Imperium of today, and some were just advanced in a different technological direction. All of them have left their mark.

 

[rust]

... where you can find ruins from different alien
civilizations layered on top of each other, like one of those older
European cities.

I have to go digging, this town here is more than 2,000 years old, and
no one ever mentioned those layers of alien ruins to me. :shock:

(Sorry, I could not resist ... )

 

[dayriff]

... where you can find ruins from different alien
civilizations layered on top of each other, like one of those older
European cities.

I have to go digging, this town here is more than 2,000 years old, and
no one ever mentioned those layers of alien ruins to me. :shock:

(Sorry, I could not resist ... )

Heh. You know what I mean, though. A friend of mine who was involved in some archeology digs in Spain was telling me how often this involved digging up somebody's backyard.

 

[zanwot]

I am quite keen on the Droyne, which I consider to be one of the better Traveller alien races (after the Hiver of course).

What I personnaly would prefer, would be more *present* Droyne, with their usual apparent detachment but getting them involved in interstellar affairs somehow (rather than them having no motivation for anything, at least by the book).
IE I would make the Droyne more into a low key ancient-ish race, somewhere between the Centauri, the carrion eater race and the Vorlons of B5. But their story need not change.

Other Ancient races, or remains, would be welcome of course too.

 

[khazwind]

Can we now have more interesting Ancients?Just keep it so tightly defined that it does not effect the entire OTU - so it can be embraced or ignored with equal aplum.

"We demand a total absence of solid facts. I demand that I may, or may not be, Vroomfondel."

"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty."

Gotta love Douglas Adams.

The universe is a big place and there's certainly space for more unusual/alien pre-human cultures.

Plus, there's nothing to say the OTU ancients didn't run around erasing evidence of other cultures. From what (little) I understand of grandfather and the ancients, I'd say they're about as trustworthy as Wikipedia.

 

[captainjack23]

From what (little) I understand of grandfather and the ancients, I'd say they're about as trustworthy as Wikipedia.

Yaskoydray then proceed to go forward in this new timeline to see the results of his intervention. Satisfied he returned to his pocket universe. This new timeline is the one the PC's know. In fact nobody (except for Yaskoydray) knows of this change nor will ever know of it. The six races on the coyns mystery will never be solved by inhabitants of this timeline.

Because Grandfather lied. He was (is) in hiding because some other Ancient kicked his ass.

Obviously no one believes in what grandfather said, except, perhaps gullible PC's........but then, the question is, why did he tell such a stupid lie in the first place....unless we were supposed to be skeptical... ? :shock:

.....and people complain about hiver manipulations. :?

 

[rust]

.....and people complain about hiver manipulations. :?

This "Grandfather" was a Hiver manipulation, a simple Droyne backed
up by some high tech stage magician's tricks. :lol:

 

[captainjack23]

.....and people complain about hiver manipulations. :?

This "Grandfather" was a Hiver manipulation, a simple Droyne backed
up by some high tech stage magician's tricks. :lol:

"Pay no attention to the footstool behind the screen !"

 

[EDG]

Nobody in the OTU even knows about Grandfather anyway (aside from a few crazies who claim they found a portal to his pocket dimension, which obviously nobody is ever going to check out despite the fact that those people have some really advanced (and functional) tech artifacts that they say they brought back from an Ancient ship... yeah right...).

 

[Travellingdave]

In my version of the OTU, the Droyne are not as passive as they have been portrayed in the published material.

There is a REASON why the two Droyne worlds in the Five Sisters subsector are surrounded by Imperial Naval Bases. There is a nasty little brushfire war going on there trying to keep those two Droyne worlds from expanding into an Empire of there own... The new Psion book has given me some very nasty ideas about this.

I'm doing something similar, although the Droyne antagonism isn't directed towards the Imperium but something ... else. Yes, I've got other Ancients out there and some of them make Grandfather look pathetic. The Droyne on Candor and Andory have a better understanding of their history than most of the remaining droyne colonies ... and some powerful tools to play with. The Imperium actually hopes to garner their technical cooperation and, in exchange, they protect the two Droyne worlds from any human interference, allowing the Droyne to concentrate on their real enemy. Unfortunately, the Imperium (and the PCs) may find that the upcoming 5th Frontier War is only a prelude to something much worse ...

 

[kristof65]

For MTU, I'm in the process of re-writing the Ancients. I've decided that Grandfather's story is _mostly_ true - but, like Dave Chase said, Grandfather lied about many key points.

Yes, he's the one who "invented" J-drive for the Droyne. But not because he actually invented it, but merely stole or copied it from another alien civilization, probably a dead one.

Yes, he and his selected few spread throughout the stars, doing some strange and wonderful things - but they weren't the ones who actually spread humaniti - they don't even know who did. But they emulated it by creating the Vargr.

I have several things I'm undecided upon - one is the age of the Droyne "ancients" - I'm thinking that they aren't as old as claimed - maybe 150,000k or so, and that the signs of their war are merely layered on top of a much older war.

Either that, or the Droyne were minor players in the conflict between 2-4 other races, and as bit players, happen to be the only survivors.

In any case, the Droyne appear to be a common thread among all the various disparate ancient sites, but the reality is that their "presence" there is really just a form of pollution - the reality is far more mysterious.

 

[GypsyComet]

In my version of the OTU, the Droyne are not as passive as they have been portrayed in the published material.

There is a REASON why the two Droyne worlds in the Five Sisters subsector are surrounded by Imperial Naval Bases. There is a nasty little brushfire war going on there trying to keep those two Droyne worlds from expanding into an Empire of there own... The new Psion book has given me some very nasty ideas about this.

I'm doing something similar, although the Droyne antagonism isn't directed towards the Imperium but something ... else. Yes, I've got other Ancients out there and some of them make Grandfather look pathetic. The Droyne on Candor and Andory have a better understanding of their history than most of the remaining droyne colonies ... and some powerful tools to play with. The Imperium actually hopes to garner their technical cooperation and, in exchange, they protect the two Droyne worlds from any human interference, allowing the Droyne to concentrate on their real enemy. Unfortunately, the Imperium (and the PCs) may find that the upcoming 5th Frontier War is only a prelude to something much worse ...

I like both of these, and I'm running a game in District 268. Mwa haha.

I was thinking along similar lines some years back. I decided at the time that Jump Space exists only where Jump drives have been used, or within a certain radius of the original Jump Space Generators. Andor and Candory aren't simply the locations of active Droyne and many artifacts; the two systems comprise one very large artifact. As long as the two systems are left to their respective and related celestial dances, jumpspace works correctly. The last bit of mass wierdness in jumpspace, now carefully removed from all public records, dates to when the Maghiz passed through the systems.

This would be cause for careful stellar surveys of all stars within 50 lightyears anyway, but the Droyne living there have indicated that during that brief flicker *things* were able to get closer to human space. Things kept away by the existence of jumpspace...

 

[Dave Chase]

For MTU, I'm in the process of re-writing the Ancients. I've decided that Grandfather's story is _mostly_ true - but,

...

I have several things I'm undecided upon - one is the age of the Droyne "ancients" - I'm thinking that they aren't as old as claimed - maybe 150,000k or so, and that the signs of their war are merely layered on top of a much older war.

Either that, or the Droyne were minor players in the conflict between 2-4 other races, and as bit players, happen to be the only survivors.

In any case, the Droyne appear to be a common thread among all the various disparate ancient sites, but the reality is that their "presence" there is really just a form of pollution - the reality is far more mysterious.

The Droyne are the rats of local space, yes, I like this. :lol:

And the only reason that so many are still alive today is because of that racial trait of you don't notice me PSI thingy.

Neat idea, kristof65

Dave Chase

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I was going with Andory and Candor being the only Droyne Industrial worlds (the UWPs are faked to keep people away). The Droyne there want to have a Pocket Empire of their own (Maybe 2-3 Subsectors in size). It isn't that they are against the Imperium, it is that they are expansionistic... That is what the Imperium is trying to prevent.

Andory and Candor have been mined of all their Lanthanum, so the Droyne have no way to expand their FTL fleet. The Imperium likes it that way. So, the Droyne are going Psionic and developing Fold Space drives using Psions as a way around the Imperial blockade.

Nothing incredibly sinister here, just a different technology being applied at the edge of the Imperium.

IF I allow the 5FW to proceed as in the original timeline, then the Imperium is actually STRONGER after the war, which might put a damper on the rising Droyne Hegemony.

But, if the Droyne use the distraction of the 5FW to begin their expansion, they might be able to grab a few worlds and then sue for peace at the end of the 5FW. The Imperium is likely to have significantly reduced the forces in the Naval bases in the Five Sisters and sent those forces into the Sword Worlds. If the Droyne are smart and make a deal with the Darrians, they might get the Imperium to accept the new situation. After all, most of the worlds around the Droyne are not very highly populated, being not much more than a Naval base and hangers on. Unruly populations might be willing to accept a compromise, semi-autonomous situation from the Droyne that they could never get from the Imperium.

I think I need to spend so serious time looking at the Five Sisters subsector map and UWPs and decide what would happen there.