Campaign Kick-Off Idea (Moral choices in Conan)

[flatscan]

Well, actually, the women and children are way more likely to be ok if theyre captured by the Picts, rather than say, your players if youre going by Across the Thunder River. Picts apparently take women as wives and just adopt the children. They wont hurt them, or even rape the women. They just do things differently. If theyre captured by Shemites or Stygians though....hoo-boy....

Or theyll just be killed like any other villager. Of course, you could just be going off of how Aquilonians THINK the Picts will act, which is totally legit.

Yeah, that's my take on it. The Aquilonians may not know what exactly the fate of the taken women and children are. But they do know what happens to the men, it's savage and it's brutal. I think this makes Supplement's concept all the more interesting. The matronly woman fears the worst, most horrible fate and begs to be mercy killed along with the other women and children. She's the eldest woman in the village so what she thinks is true is likely what the other women think too, especially since they're all scared out of their wits as the barbarians are literally at the gates. Now imagine if the PCs do the deed and mercy kill the women and children, only to later cross Thunder River and either be captured and taken to a Pict village or come across it and find that the matronly woman's assumptions were incorrect as they see healthy Hyborian women and children living as Picts. Imagine the guilt those characters would likely carry. What if one has a cousin or other family member in the Pict village? Would the PCs try to rescue them? What if that Hyborian woman had gone completely native, did not want to return to the Westermarck or Aquilonia, and tried to kill one of the PCs? Would the PCs kill this savage Hyborian woman too? That is the stuff of powerful drama, could be an episode of Rome. Go for it Supplement. Great concept! :twisted:

 

[Supplement Four]

Yeah, that's my take on it. The Aquilonians may not know what exactly the fate of the taken women and children are. But they do know what happens to the men, it's savage and it's brutal.

That is an interesting take.

I'll admit, what I've read of the Picts was a long, long time ago. I'm re-reading some Conan now. Maybe I'll run into them again.

I haven't read any of the Mongoose supplements dealing with the Picts. What you and others are describing sounds to me more like Native American Indians.

From what I remember of the Picts, there is no real stereotype except that they're tribal barbarians. Like the Native Americans, you sure has hell hope you run into the Cherokee rather than the Apache.

The Picts that have gathered together in my origin story would be definitely of the later type.

I haven't plotted any more of the story past this. I may connect a published Mongoose adventure, or I may continue making stuff up on my own. I don't know yet. I thought I'd wait and see how the session goes, trying to get a feel for which (story) direction the players will head. Then, I'd prepare something interesting in that direction once I know their intentions.

It's the illusion of free will in a game. It's oh, so important. I want the players to feel as if they are living in a real world, one that any choice is possible. At the same time, I know from long time experience, that being prepared is the best way to go for a game--even if you go off the "edge of the map" and have to ad lib.

So, I pay attention to the players and try to give them what they want--without them knowing I'm really preparing for it.

What would be interesting is if, indeed, the Picts do treat women the way you say (they take them as squaws, like some of the Native American Indian tribes did). What if some force is at work on the Picts? Some of the tribes worship demons. I could play around with that, work it into a plot.

I'm also influenced by the way the Picts are depicted in the Age of Conan MMO. These savages are some scary somebitches, I'll tell ya. They're evil looking bastards, bloodthirsty, the fight like all he hells have opened up. Some are cannibals, and many tribes, in the game, do, indeed, worship a demon.

They're not quite what you're describing from the Thunder River supplement.

 

[flatscan]

I'll admit, what I've read of the Picts was a long, long time ago. I'm re-reading some Conan now. Maybe I'll run into them again.

I'd recommend reading the original REH version of Beyond the Black River or his unedited fragment of Wolves Beyond the Border. REHs Picts behaved much like the most brutal stories of Native Americans.

These savages are some scary somebitches, I'll tell ya. They're evil looking bastards, bloodthirsty, the fight like all he hells have opened up. Some are cannibals, and many tribes, in the game, do, indeed, worship a demon.

They're not quite what you're describing from the Thunder River supplement.

Yeah, the Age of Conan game is heavily inspired by pastiche work. I see that as a shame as the pastiches distorted REHs words too much IMO. But your description of them being scary, evil looking, bloodthirsty, many tribes, etc. is the same. And yeah, some of them are cannibals and worship demons too. :twisted: I imagine Picts looking similarly to the Picts in history, but I have them behave similarly to Native Americans including some affectations and ornamentation. I can't recommend the Across the Thunder River supplement enough, especially if you're planning a campaign in the Westermarck. Vincent Darlage included a lot of pastiche material like Ligureans if you're interested in that. I know I've pimped my campaign wiki to you in the past, but my PCs are currently deep in an adventure facing Picts and I'm using material from the supplement. Across the Thunder River is out of print but if you do want to check it out you can get the PDF from drivethrurpg.com or the hard copy from eBay or maybe Amazon.

 

[treeplanter]

1. The PCs are conscripts in an attacking force. The invaders (PC's side) take the city/town/village. Despite being teenage conscripts, they're under the command of veterans who expect them to "take their fair share" from the town. Do the PC's comply? If they take a moral stand, are the ostracized, beaten, or worse? Do the PCs attempt to protect the women/children? If you've got the Free Companies sourcebook - what happens when the army they're part of doesn't abide by the "civilized" rules of war?

2. PCs are defenders. As the Picts attack, they are assigned to protect the women. Their superior, thinking all is lost, is determined that the woman refusing his advances will succumb to him before he dies. Do the PCs intervene? The superior is a nobleman - who will blame the PCs for his crime and his words will carry the weight of the law. Will the PCs opt for moral nobility even though they and their families may pay dearly for it? If not, will the fallout of their inaction plague them for years to come?

3. PCs are defenders. As the Picts attack, they are assigned to protect the lord's wife, who is in labor delivering the lord's future heir. The Picts are hell bent of killing the lord and ending his bloodline. The wife begs the PCs to save her child but end her life.

You get the idea.

Just my two cents.

Those was some nice exemple. However maybe we might be arguing for nothing. Afterall, this is Conan.

1. Wathever. Take what they want, kill, burn, rape, loot. Then drink alcool.
2. If the woman is pretty, take the woman after he is done. If the woman is ugly, laugh at him for seducing this horror.
3. "Fine, i'll save the future child we will have together"

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Azgulor raised some pretty salient points, Im with him that most players wouldnt accept the 'either/or' situation.

Theres another point here. Whilst you attempt to portray the Hyborain Age in a gritty, realistic way, with harsh difficult decisons, youre making out the Picts to be cartoon villains. One dimensional bad guys. I dont see much charatcerisation on their behalf in this scenario.

 

[Scorpion13]

You know, if you wanted things to get REALLY morally ambiguous, you could have the Picts take them as "squaws"...and then you throw them into a "The Searchers" type situation. Those womenfolk are gonna be rescued....whether they like it or not.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

You know, if you wanted things to get REALLY morally ambiguous, you could have the Picts take them as "squaws"...and then you throw them into a "The Searchers" type situation. Those womenfolk are gonna be rescued....whether they like it or not.

Thats a good way to extend the possibilities. Make it more about choice, realism and characterisation. I would think that the women would be pissed to be rescued by these incompetent guys too!

 

[flatscan]

You know, if you wanted things to get REALLY morally ambiguous, you could have the Picts take them as "squaws"...and then you throw them into a "The Searchers" type situation. Those womenfolk are gonna be rescued....whether they like it or not.

Heh, that's basically what I was suggesting above. ;-)

 

[tarkhan bey]

I reckon that "The Searchers" idea, that was mentioned earlier, is a brilliant way to go with this. John Waynes character(Ethan Thomas) hates the Commanches who have kidnapped his neice and regards them with extreme racial prejudice(to the extent that he is prepared to kill her because he believes that she has been defiled or tainted by them).
An army officer returned from the civil war between King Namedides and Conan and created in the same mould as Ethan Thomas would be a fantastic NPC to lead the young characters into the wilderness to look for their relatives.
During this, Prince Yrkoon's issue with one dimensional Pict's could be addressed.(Of course, you could say that to be true to Howard, the Picts are simply bloodthirsty monsters, intent on murder and looting.)
The humanity of the Picts could gradually be revealed as the NPC's racial bigotry comes to the fore.
In Wolves beyond the Border, there is also mention of Scohiran Renegades. So there are "white men" living among the Picts and in certain circumstances it would appear that Pict and Aquilonian can meet without inevitable violence.
I have a graphic novel called "Wilderness-the true story of Simon Girty". There are some good ideas in this for a party of Picts or the aforementioned Scohiran renegades.

 

[Vortigern]

I like the dilemma S4.

Let us know how it turns out!

I think I would have had my PC kill the old/feeble and children and try to escape with the more viable women. Maybe. Or die fighting. ;P

 

[Supplement Four]

Or die fighting. ;P

That will be the hardest part to govern if I run with this. My players are likely to say, "To hell with it. I'm standing right here and guarding this building, if it kills me."

At that point, I'll have to overwhelm them with Picts. They're first level, so it won't be hard. I'll surround them or try to knock them out or use the lotus powder on them--something that keeps them from starting a situation where they won't be killed but are powerless to stop the Picts from running off with the women.

The guilt of having a chance to do something about it might be as strong as if they had killed the babes and elderly. I could have the Picts tie them up and make them watch as the elderly are slain at spear point, the infants are thrown in the fire, and the ones in the middle taken off with the Picts for gods know what.

Something like that will make them hate the Picts, fear them, and carry some baggage with them from this hard frontier life similiar to the original idea.

I don't exactly know what my players will do, but I will tell you that they will be reluctant to kill the babes and elderly. I've got to make them believe that there's no other way out.





*Note: In the store the other day and flipped through Across Thunder River. I'm going to have to get that. I see the end of it has some neat adventures--a mini campaign. I see a magical staff. Didn't have time to read it all.

I could have the players' characters killed if they choose to go that route, but kept alive via the power of the staff and the Left For Dead rule. I could add some healing power to the staff at the expense of corruption--the demons keeping its bearer alive in order for the staff to get to where it wants to go.

The players could wake up in the aftermath of the fight and see what the Picts have done.

That'd work, too.

 

[warzen]

Any playing feedback S4 ?

In my case, I know that I won't be able to decide my wife to kill babies in our Conan game.

W.

 

[Scorpion13]

Yeah, I would love to hear how this went. That is, if it happened yet.

 

[Supplement Four]

Nope, no feedback yet.

I've been wondering if I have time to commit to a campaign. I'd love to play, but I want to get my ducks in a row before I have to bail on a group I set up.