Brainstorming: "Puzzles"

[Clovenhoof]

I asked my players what kind of game they'd like to play next session and one answer I got was "something with puzzles". That's okay, because the last session was mainly combat, so a little change of pace would give the Scholar and Thief more opportunity to shine / screen time. The Pirate is not stupid either.
They are all level 2 (halfway to 3) and have the usual skills. At the moment they are in an area near today's Caspic Sea (or Vilayet if you will... but our game is set in the far future).

I thought about sending them to / letting them discover some old temple or ruin (I have Ruins of Hyboria). There's supposed to be some combat of course, but not so much. It should be more like dungeon run getting past mechanical obstacles.

More important would be some chestnuts outside the norm. They should be logical and solvable, but not as simple as the usual "pull Lever A to open door B" or "fetch" type of puzzles.
Also, the players are new to d20 but pretty experienced in RPGs in general, so I don't want to have them yawn at some old stuff seen a hundred times before.

So please, share any good puzzles you have devised, or read somewhere, or had to solve as players. =) Thanks.

 

[Majestic7]

I'm not really good at making up logical puzzles, but I had one historical one in the last gaming session, undearneath Pteion the Damned. There was a room with four doors. The doors closed when people entered, blocking them inside. On the interior of the door was engraved poetic texts describing different events of ancient history, ranging from the fall of Valusia to arrival of the Stygian ancestors and the fall of Acheron. The trick was pretty easy, the players and characters had to guess right order to press the engravings. If they pressed a wrong order, they were punished with poison mist.

This was more a test for players than characters, though. They had met a strange, blind storyteller Tawil At'Umr (does anyone recognize the name?) many in-game weeks and several game session ago, who had told them of ancient history at some length. Thus they just had to remember what the mysterious man had told about the history and remember the order of things that happened correctly.

I guess you could work on something like that yourself? I could definetely use ideas for good logical puzzles myself.

 

[argo]

Whenever I use "puzzles" or "mysteries" (as in murder mysteries) I tend not to actually plan out some complicated series of clues or riddles needed for the One Right Answer. Instead I have a starting set-up, and usually some idea of what the ending is. Then I let my players start sweating it out. They have a tendancy to talk through their plans around the game table, so I get to listen to their thoughts and get ideas from that. Then they will start asking me what happens when they try certian things, so I tell them to roll for it. And if they roll prety well, and if I feel that they have sweated it enough, or if their idea was a really good idea then I will declare them successful and give them the next clue needed to advance. 9 times out of 10 whatever idea they come up with is way better than whatever it was I would have planed out in advance anyway :roll:

I know that this answer isn't what you were asking for. But there you go

Later.

 

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

I put symbols on a cobwebbed tomb. Their were fourteen symbols hidden on the wall, the correct solving was read left to right at a half way point, it read right to left. There were small demonic hands indicating the directions (Dc 40 to Spot).

Each sarcaphagos had a matching symbol. THe last sarcophogas held a key when the symbols were touched in order on the other one. The key opened a chamber, where by they found a lost tome.

I am pretty nasty with these things, so you can use your imagin what happened if they failed to do the symbols in order.

 

[Clovenhoof]

I skimmed the web for a while now and found many puzzles, but most of them are, unfortunately, rather crappy.
Here's my take on how puzzles should be designed, and what should be avoided if you want the puzzles to be "realistic" (i.e. logical within the game world):

- Skill checks (or any other die rolls) should play only a minor role in puzzles. Otherwise, the players could simply demand a skillcheck instead of thinking for themselves. And in turn, the GM could just say "You come into a room with a puzzle. Roll to see if you find the solution."

- good uses for PC skills would be stuff like Spot/Search, Open Lock, Disable Device, and Decipher Script, if there is some kind of instructions to be read. OTOH, in most cases Knowledge checks should stay out of the equation.

- a typical type of puzzle is a "room puzzle": you find some kind of device in a room and need to work it correctly before you can advance. If you do it wrong, you usually spring some trap, which can be anything from hidden crossbows over poison gas to the famous crushing ceiling is possible.

- while it's a common practice among puzzle scripters to pack the puzzle setup with instructions and/or code keys, this is IMHO very bad design in most cases. Imagine you'd build a complicated mechanical device to restrict entrance to a room. You'd "publish" the code on a need to know basis. You would certainly not paint the entire room with pictograms describing how to work the device and how to come up with the correct combination.

Just as in real life you wouldn't leave your debit card lying around with your PIN written on it with permanent marker. The pyramids of Egypt weren't booby-trapped, but if they were, the hieroglyphs would STILL warn of the curse of the Pharaoh and NOT give detailed instructions how to circumvent the traps.

- there also seems to be an unwritten law that the solution has to be encrypted in a poem or verse. This is an option only of the puzzle is _meant_ to be cracked by a complete stranger, as a kind of test or the like. Otherwise, it's the same fallacy as above.

- ideally, the players should not need to find the code written or painted somewhere. If they can't solve the puzzle without the code, it's not a puzzle at all. Much rather, they should be able to figure out the working principle of a puzzle device without it being written all over the walls.

- it is much more difficult to set up fair puzzles within an "ancient ruin" context. Whoever built those devices should have spoken a different language, used a different script, and maybe even thought totally different than the present-day characters.

EDIT: just read this post on another forum:
"What kind of sorcerer would invest time to secure a door with a device that can be disabled if you are intelligent enough, while a stupid but legal vistor cannot open?
This effectively means that intelligent and dangerous intruders can proceed, while the stupid have to remain outside? Bullshit!
If at all, I'd build a door with a puzzle that springs a deadly trap if you solve the puzzle. Dumb allies (henchmen of the dungeons) will fail, the more intelligent are told that the door is a trap (if necessary, with demonstration), obnoxious adventurers fall for it in their greed..."

A valid point. :twisted:

 

[Se Chris]

One of my favourite logic puzzles is from another company's product. It basically goes like this:

The party are exploring an old castle/big house type of thing where a bunch of demigods used to live. They come to two doors. Each door has a speaking mask on it. The masks say "One of us always tells the truth, the other always lies. One door leads to [good stuff], the other leads to certain death."

Seems fairly standard, right?

Wrong. Both doors lead to certain death. There's a secret door between them that leads further into the building. As the original writer put it: "There is a logic puzzle here, but it's not the one you're thinking of. The logic puzzle is 'why would anyone build a setup like this into their house?' "

 

[DasClay]

One of my favourite logic puzzles is from another company's product. It basically goes like this:

The party are exploring an old castle/big house type of thing where a bunch of demigods used to live.

MTV real worldemigods edition...

I know the mod, your talking about Chris, that was pretty cool, played it as a player some time ago... I also thought it was pretty cool.

Cloven... have u thought of some of the books out like traps and treachery?

 

[FailedSpotCheck]

One awesome puzzle that is my all-time fave is called Pentominoes. If you're not familiar with it, it is a geometrical puzzle with 12 pieces, each composed of 5 cubes connected together, 60 cubes total.

With a 6x10 rectangle format, there are 2339 possible solutions.
With a 3x4x5 block, there are 3940 possible solutions, but they fall into 60 or so groupings or "families" of related solutions. Very fascinating stuff. 8)

The best-made pentominoes I've yet seen are made by LiveCube:

http://www.livecube.com/pentominoes/homepage/mainpagenew.html

The site's interface is weird, and it's run by Taiwanese (?) guys but the puzzles they offer are great.

(I submitted a very large adventure module where I worked this into the story as a potentially powerful magic item [Major Artefact], but very sadly the 'Goose rejected it. ). Basically, some of the 100's or 1000's of possible solutions, once assembled, would initiate a sorcerous effect, some from the Conan RPG books (like Scrolls of Skelos), others I cooked up specifically for the module. A few solutions had world-altering (read: KA-BOOM!) effects. :shock: :twisted:

There was on the market a terrific CD for sale called Pentominus, that I cannot recommend highly enough. It has probably hundreds of different solution types and perhaps over 10,000 actual solutions.

There is a website run by a Japanese guy. The site is called something like "Puzzle will be played" or somesuch phrase. :shock: If you google it you should be able to find it. Just found it:

http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~rh5k-isn/Puzzle/index.html.en

Other recommended puzzles to investigate:
* Pentacubes (much more complex than Pentominoes.)
* Soma (240 possible solutions--a lot easier than Pentominoes!) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soma_cube
http://www.fam-bundgaard.dk/SOMA/HISTORY.HTM (I've emailed this site's webmaster a few years ago: very nice guy! 8) )

 

[Majestic7]

One awesome puzzle that is my all-time fave is called Pentominoes. If you're not familiar with it, it is a geometrical puzzle with 12 pieces, each composed of 5 cubes connected together, 60 cubes total.

With a 6x10 rectangle format, there are 2339 possible solutions.
With a 3x4x5 block, there are 3940 possible solutions, but they fall into 60 or so groupings or "families" of related solutions. Very fascinating stuff. 8)

*snip*

(I submitted a very large adventure module where I worked this into the story as a potentially powerful magic item [Major Artefact], but very sadly the 'Goose rejected it. ). Basically, some of the 100's or 1000's of possible solutions, once assembled, would initiate a sorcerous effect, some from the Conan RPG books (like Scrolls of Skelos), others I cooked up specifically for the module. A few solutions had world-altering (read: KA-BOOM!) effects. :shock: :twisted:

That sounds pretty nice. If you happen to decide to put the stuff available in the net for the rest us, be sure to give a shout. I could use something like that, but I'm too lazy and mathematically ungifted to start designing things like that myself.

 

[Vortigern]

I once built a vault door for another game ( Mage ) with a three dial combination lock designed around alchemical principles. The basic intent was to restrict access to the area only to Magi of the builder's tradition. This meant the puzzle was nominally solvable but it still posed quite an obstacle to the unitiated attempting to gain entry.

You can do this puzzle in varying levels of complexity, but the gist of it is this:

The symbols on the three dials represent alchemical elements and/or processes and products.

There is an alchemical formula that is the 'key' to opening the vault door.

If you want the puzzle to be solvable at face value, have the end product ( the key element/solution ) engraved in the center of the door, inbetween the three dials. They then proceed to implement elements / procedures until they correctly apply the concepts of alchemy to acheive the desired product the vault opens.

If you want this to be a logic test decide beforehand what substance or whatnot you want the key to be and have a general idea of what properties and methods of creation surround it. I am generally of the opinion that there is no need to enumerate all the various symbols on the dials... because it would be an exhaustive list. But if your players seem stumped you can make a rudimentary list. ( Putrefaction, Purification, Refinement, Sifting, Distilling, Mixing in ratios etc. ) The dials should be described as relatively 'big' and the symbols etc on them 'small'. You have to almost know what you are looking for to find it on the dial.

Now... the problem with this puzzle is that it revolves around knowledge of alchemy. i.e. people without said knowledge ICly should have -no- chance of solving the puzzle. People with said knowledge -should- be able to solve it, eventually. Which fits the design intent of the door, to keep out followers of other mystical traditions... but not exhaustively so.

The 'added flavor' of this lock was that the combination dials would generate your 'punishment' for attempting the lock and failing. i.e. whatever the product you dialed up was, taken to an extreme enough to be damaging somehow, was what you got shwacked with... unless totally unreasonable... and then the door just crackled with energy and rumbled angrily and whatnot.

Worstcase, if you don't know much about alchemy yourself, just write up a small random table of the 'results' of the door and roll whenever they fail it.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Hmmm, that sounds pretty interesting. I'll definitely keep that in mind. It probably wouldn't fit in the upcoming session, where the party is supposed to find and explore either a ruined temple or a tomb, which will be mostly sunken or buried in sand.
Any I'll keep the alchemy puzzle in mind and use it when the opportunity arises. ^^

 

[Trodax]

This is not the kind of puzzle you're asking about...

...but I just wanted to say that an adventure setup I think is great for Conan is when you have a highly-charged situation with a couple of different factions of NPCs, and the PC's are free to handle it as they want.

You know, you have this isolated island with two warring pirate groups who are competitively looking for a lost treasure or whatever. The pirates are too strong for the PC's to just take on in combat, so they are forced to use cunning if they want the treasure for themselves (which of course they do, the greedy bastards). They can ally themselves to one group, try to manipulate them to kill each other off, or just stealth around and harass them to death. Great opportunities for role-playing, and it's definitely a situation where scholars and thieves can shine, which was sort of what you were looking for.

To make it really Conan you'd probably also want to throw in a third faction acting as an "environmental-threat"; native cannibals, a clan of man-apes, or some Lovecraftian monster.

 

[Gabriel_Luna]

I'm very partial to puzzles and the like in my games. I've done everything from a time travel puzzle they had to resolve to zombie disemboweling puzzles. However my favorite have always been riddles. Riddles are tough to work into most games, but riddle lock doors or riddle contests are good fun if you can make it work in setting.

My last group (before I moved) wasn't the brightest group, so any puzzle more complex than "ME SMASH WITH SWORD" required some skill checks (at very low difficulty) to supply them with hints...but if your players are smart then riddles that make them think (as opposed to just rolling for their characters) might be a good change of pace.

The internet is full of riddles and logic puzzles, but my personal favorite is the Exeter Book, which is an actual middle ages text, a compilation of riddles of the time. Nothing adds swords and sorcery flavor like an authentic medieval riddle, if you ask me. The link is to a hypertext version (from a course website from a university, I think) and it lists riddles and solutions seperately, so you can even see if you can solve them before springing them on your PCs.
http://www2.kenyon.edu/AngloSaxonRiddles/texts.htm

 

[Vortigern]

The reason that puzzle came to mind is that it seemed rather easily transferable to this genre, with Scholars being rather factional.

Now that I ponder it a bit more, I'd suggest adding some darker perhaps biological elements to the alchemy puzzle if you wanted to give it a more 'S&S' feel. i.e. Have the formula be for something rather high on the 'ick' scale. Perhaps a formula for a bio-servant or something similar. Homonculi etc. Or a home-made goblin.

If you look at it in the light of the Hyborian setting, you could even use that as inspiration on what might be behind the door.

Monster-formula = Monster Lab + ( uh oh players ) Monsters inside the vault.

Perhaps a bit more high-magic than some folks taste however.

And if you use that idea, please let me know how it goes!

 

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

So what did you for your puzzle?

 

[Clovenhoof]

Nuttin. I had prepared something but the players totally stalled the entire session. They didn't even go to the location I volunteered to them.

What they _would_ have found, however, was indeed inspired by this thread, and would have been something along the lines of this: in a Zikkurat-style temple, access to different levels was restricted by various statues that demanded offerings - the right amount of the right substance.
For example, the lower level would have been a grain chamber, and to open the next level, you have to pour a certain amount of grain into a bowl held by a statue.

I hadn't prepared everything in detail, so I could respond more flexlible to player ideas, so it wasn't so much of a loss. Still, I'm going to prepare even less in the future.