Bomber reload?

[frankinla]

Must carrier-based bombers return to reload between bombings? I say no, since I don't see that mentioned in the rules. My friends say yes, since planes continously bombing with unlimited ammo would be silly, and the book does mention carriers "recovering" planes. If you don't have to recover them to reload or repair, why mention it?

So, who's right?

Frank in L.A.

 

[DM]

Your friend is sort of correct. Aircraft must land to rearm. However, its not in the current rules Watch out for developments soon (ish), or take a peek at my website for some ideas on carrier operations.

 

[juggler69uk]

Your friend is sort of correct. Aircraft must land to rearm. However, its not in the current rules Watch out for developments soon (ish), or take a peek at my website for some ideas on carrier operations.

In which case are Fighters going to have to do a decklanding to re-arm/Re-fuel or are they still going to hang around all game once launched, shooting any number of opponents flights down in flames

 

[juggler69uk]

Plus

Are multi aircraft dogfights going to get defined ?

As doing two on one as two separate dogfights just doesnt work for the inferior aircraft

 

[lastbesthope]

Such scenarios were dealt with as separate dogfights at the tournament yesterday.

LBH

 

[frankinla]

Thanks for the replies. I like DM's refuel/rearm track. I was just reading the tournament report here and the player mentioned his tactic of launching all his flights then bottling out the carriers, so I guess he isn't worried about reloading! My group is never going to accept the magic-bomber-who-camps-on-top-of-your-ship-until-shot-down method, though. We'll probably go with a simplified house rule of requiring bombers to return to carrier after their attack and relaunch the following turn until some official word comes from on high.

Frank in L.A.

 

[juggler69uk]

Such scenarios were dealt with as separate dogfights at the tournament yesterday.

LBH

As I said, Doing it that way is unfair to the inferior aircraft(a/c), I mean you could actually place 4 a/c in contact and then have to fight 4 separate dogfights. with the better aircraft winning all and absolutely no bonus to the side able to gang up,.

If you cant get any benefit from multiple a/c in combat there would be little point in ganging up as you get the same chance of winning but could delay more turns by throwing them in one by one (as long as you have the initiative that is)

One on One I can deal with losing every time to better a/c, It just seems to me that there should be a bonus for ganging up in a dogfight. or a negative for successive dogfights in a turn by the same a/c,

For instance first dogfight as normal, second and futher dogfights the outnumbered a/c is -1

Anyway this is only opinion and ramblings

 

[captainsmirk]

Thanks for the replies. I like DM's refuel/rearm track. I was just reading the tournament report here and the player mentioned his tactic of launching all his flights then bottling out the carriers, so I guess he isn't worried about reloading! My group is never going to accept the magic-bomber-who-camps-on-top-of-your-ship-until-shot-down method, though. We'll probably go with a simplified house rule of requiring bombers to return to carrier after their attack and relaunch the following turn until some official word comes from on high.

Frank in L.A.

Well parking you plane over a ship until it gets shot down is a little stupid, it can't do anything once its attacked once...

Since all bombers have one-shot weapons, and no way of reloading even if the did return to the carrier, they basically become useless after their one attack run...


Nick

 

[juggler69uk]

Since all bombers have one-shot weapons, and no way of reloading even if the did return to the carrier, they basically become useless after their one attack run...

Unless you use them to run interference or blocking tactics against opponents aircraft

 

[Keith]

Since all bombers have one-shot weapons, and no way of reloading even if the did return to the carrier, they basically become useless after their one attack run...

Unless you use them to run interference or blocking tactics against opponents aircraft

Somthing our group has outlawed for the sake of historical accuracy. IMO the failure to deal with carrier airgraft is the one major failing of VaS as an historical game. In practice you never saw carriers toe to toe with the enemy, they always fled behind an escort screen when meetng enemy surface vessels.

I am currently develpoing on an approach akin (but moe general) to the Bismark mini campaign mentioned in an earlier thread but this needs a considerable work yet.

 

[juggler69uk]

Since all bombers have one-shot weapons, and no way of reloading even if the did return to the carrier, they basically become useless after their one attack run...

Unless you use them to run interference or blocking tactics against opponents aircraft

Somthing our group has outlawed for the sake of historical accuracy. IMO the failure to deal with carrier airgraft is the one major failing of VaS as an historical game. In practice you never saw carriers toe to toe with the enemy, they always fled behind an escort screen when meetng enemy surface vessels.

I am currently develpoing on an approach akin (but moe general) to the Bismark mini campaign mentioned in an earlier thread but this needs a considerable work yet.

Yes this Tactic may well stop once you can land and re-arm them

 

[frankinla]

Well parking you plane over a ship until it gets shot down is a little stupid, it can't do anything once its attacked once...

Since all bombers have one-shot weapons, and no way of reloading even if the did return to the carrier, they basically become useless after their one attack run...


Nick

Yes, very true. I noticed as we played today that bombers have the 'one shot' attribute. When empty, they can still instigate dogfights (e.g., shooting down spotters) but I guess that's about it.

As for bombers having "no way of reloading", that's a very interesting idea. It never occurred to any of our group that bombers were intended to be one-use disposable items. Is that really how it's supposed to be? :?

Frank in L.A.

 

[juggler69uk]

As for bombers having "no way of reloading", that's a very interesting idea. It never occurred to any of our group that bombers were intended to be one-use disposable items. Is that really how it's supposed to be? :?

Frank in L.A.

As the way the rules are currently, the only need to recover aircraft and not lose them needlessly is in a campaign game where what you have left goes into the next engagement

 

[Myrm]

One off games often tend to introduce issues based on the willingness to expend your forces above and beyond reality to secure a win.

 

[juggler69uk]

One off games often tend to introduce issues based on the willingness to expend your forces above and beyond reality to secure a win.

Indeed, very true of most competition styles, not limited to Naval but mostly Historic or current, who knows what "attitude" future wars may hold.

 

[DM]

One off games often tend to introduce issues based on the willingness to expend your forces above and beyond reality to secure a win.

Campaign games are the only REAL form of wargaming

 

[juggler69uk]

One off games often tend to introduce issues based on the willingness to expend your forces above and beyond reality to secure a win.

Campaign games are the only REAL form of wargaming

How about sliding victory points dependent on how much of your force is left at the end of the battle or a subtraction for losing each 1/4 of your fleet etc ..... Ideas anyone ?

 

[Taellik]

One off games often tend to introduce issues based on the willingness to expend your forces above and beyond reality to secure a win.

Campaign games are the only REAL form of wargaming

Agree with that.

Too may times see the "go for broke" desperaion strategy rather than
quit now & fight another day type thing with 1-shots.

Give me a campaign any day!!!

 

[Evil Trev]

Easy to deal with in a competition environment. Only give the winner the points difference between the 2 scores! Loser either does'nt score, or only gets a minimal score if he did something.

Trev

 

[Myrm]

One off games often tend to introduce issues based on the willingness to expend your forces above and beyond reality to secure a win.

Campaign games are the only REAL form of wargaming

How about sliding victory points dependent on how much of your force is left at the end of the battle or a subtraction for losing each 1/4 of your fleet etc ..... Ideas anyone ?

Enforced break points work...There are games about that use this I can think of one historical that kicks in at around half your forces retreated or dead which usually equates to less than a quarter out of action, one fantasy that kicks in at a quarter to a half.

So essentially any game with morale in it.

Well, that or need people to play the force again.