Big list of changes in the Second Edition

[Axerules]

I bought it this week and finished to compare the beginnings of the AE and 2 ED books. A few other changes:

RACES :
Among the minor tweaks to existing races:

• *Himelian Tribesman/Wazuli: Temptress added as a Prohibited class.

• *Bossonian: Borderer added as a Favoured class.

• *Nordheimer: Temptress added as a Prohibited class.

• *Stygian: Temptress added as a Favoured class

• *Zamorian: Temptress added as a Favoured class

• *Zingaran: Temptress added as a Favoured class

I have to say that this "Favoured Class" thing with Temptresses (this class is IMO a good addition to the game and very in-genre) is now a little bit puzzling for me: in Hyboria's Fallen, Temptress was a favoured class for all civilized female characters (it sounded very logical to me).

Now, in second ED, according to the RAW, Zamorian, Zingaran, Stygian and Hyborian males have it as a Favoured class and Vendhyan as well as several other "civilized" females like Argossean girls don't have it anymore...
Am I the only one to think that this is illogical ? :?:

 

[Hervé]

It seems Iranistan has been left out again. Could it be because of the first four letters?

 

[slaughterj]

It seems Iranistan has been left out again. Could it be because of the first four letters?

No, it's because Stan didn't want it included.

 

[Hervé]

Why so? It wouldn't have been too much work, as they did appear in the pages of S&P.
Anyway, I don't know who Stan is...

 

[kintire]

I have to say that this "Favoured Class" thing with Temptresses (this class is IMO a good addition to the game and very in-genre) is now a little bit puzzling for me: in Hyboria's Fallen, Temptress was a favoured class for all civilized female characters (it sounded very logical to me).

Now, in second ED, according to the RAW, Zamorian, Zingaran, Stygian and Hyborian males have it as a Favoured class and Vendhyan as well as several other "civilized" females like Argossean girls don't have it anymore...
I'm I the only one to think that this is illogical ?

I don't suppose for a minute that you're the only one, but I think its defensible. The temptress class is actually not a feminine one, its a social persuader type who isn't also noble. Even apart from rakes and gigolos, I could see con men, spies and even merchants all built as male "temptresses". As for the Vendhyans and others, its not that they "don't have it". That's prohibited. However, their race isn't famous for it, and the stereotypical view of them isn't "temptress". Favoured class is much more than just "occurs in the culture".

 

[Trodax]

Anyway, I don't know who Stan is...

I'm thinking Stan as in Irani-Stan... Anyway, I agree with you; it's a bit weird that the Iranistanians weren't included. Especially since every other culture on the continent are covered (including the even more exotic Vendhyans and Khitans).

 

[Hervé]

I'm thinking Stan as in Irani-Stan...

Wow... The joke's almost as bad as my one...
And I was thinking that Stan was a sort of Mongoose Chief Editor! That's the funniest part of it. What I shouldn't tell everyone is that I even flipped trough my Conan books lookings for a stan somewhat in the Credits!
Hmmm.... Guess old age is coming faster than I thought...

Too bad they were omitted from the Rulebook, though.

 

[slaughterj]

It seems Iranistan has been left out again. Could it be because of the first four letters?

No, it's because Stan didn't want it included.

Why so? It wouldn't have been too much work, as they did appear in the pages of S&P.
Anyway, I don't know who Stan is...

Stan is at the end of the nation in question. :wink:

 

[Axerules]

A question for Gareth:

Special Attacks and Manoeuvres, pages 204 to 212, are now gathered.
It is nice to have all combat options in the same place.
But it creates a problem:

In AE, you could perform only one Combat Manoeuvre/round. The sentence was not reprinted (or I didn't find it). Is it an oversight ?
Special Attacks and Manoeuvres are no more clearly distinct.

How does it work:

• A:
  RAW: you can now perform any number of Special Attacks and any number of Manoeuvres.
  A HUGE change: with more easier-to-do Manoeuvres, combat rounds could become very complicated since a lot of different combos are now possible. If A is correct, one could make 3 Rolls and 4 Ripostes in the same round ?

• B:
  Only one Special Attack/Manoeuvre is allowed each round.
  It would be another huge change: in AE, D&D or the SRD, nothing prevents a character to make one trip, one disarm and one sunder if he has three attacks. But it would make combat rounds easier to handle.

• C:
  Same as in AE: any number of Special Attacks and only one Manoeuvre.
  If C is correct, which ones are Special Attacks and which ones Manoeuvres ? It is easy for the old stuff if you own AE, but for new things like Aim, Roll, Riposte...

Have you thought those things through when Aid Another, Aim and Cat's Parry were written on the same page ? Did I miss (or misunderstood) something ?

An official answer would be appreciated, thanks.

Edit: double-post in "The Rulesmasters" forum.

 

[Mongoose Gar]

The answer is A - while it's possible to do a lot of maneouvres in one round, that won't happen excessively as most of them are very situational.

 

[Axerules]

Thanks for the answer, Gareth.
Wow. This is a huge change. Particularly at high levels, when the characters will meet the prerequisites of several manoeuvres, they will be able to do a LOT of things in the same combat round.

This leads me to another question. Are the manoeuvres of the other AE books (Aquilonia, the Hyboria's, Shem and so on) also still valid ?

 

[windman]

Have the restrictions for casting spells in armour not been lifted?
If so that's a shame.

 

[Prof.Dogg]

Nope, armor still affects spells with somantic components.

 

[Trodax]

Wow. This is a huge change. Particularly at high levels, when the characters will meet the prerequisites of several manoeuvres, they will be able to do a LOT of things in the same combat round.

I don't think this will be make such a huge difference. Many manoeuvres require an action (standard or full-round) to carry out, which of course places a limit on how often they will be used.

A couple manoeuvres (Cat's Parry, Riposte) could potentially be used a lot, but only grant an attack of opportunity which normally limits you to one use per round. Incidentially, this makes the Combat Reflexes feat more useful which I kind of like (in my games it's been quite uncommon to get more than one AoO per round).

It's true that you could make a crazy number of Roll's if attacked by multiple attackers, but that's only when you're on the ground so is of course highly situational. Likewise, Dance Aside could potentially be used to move around like a madman if you're attacked by a lof of foes, but this requires you to have a very high Dodge defense (with a high-level character being attacked by a horde of mooks this could happen), and will probably lead to you moving out of the attackers reach anyway.

I haven't studied the manoeuvres in detail, though, so there might be ways of using them that I haven't thought about. Are there any particular manoeuvres that you think will be a problem with multiple uses per round?

 

[Trodax]

Have the restrictions for casting spells in armour not been lifted?
If so that's a shame.

As said, the rules on this have not been changed.
Personally, I'm happy with this. The rules might feel a bit artificial, but I like that there is something in the rules preventing spell casters from running around in plate armour. I mean, every single sorcerer in the stories is dressed in robes or silk, and the idea of a "combat-mage" does not feel very Conanish to me.

 

[are]

Interesting to have added it - I used heroic point-buy previously in Conan, but as follows: base 8 in each stat, plus 33 points to divide as desired, added straight up (i.e., no increasing stages like DnD or this). 33 was used because it was the average of the rolls for heroic Conan stats, which were base 8, plus 1d10. If this heroic rolling method is still included but those are the point-buys given, then it's better to roll the dice (even if everything was 14/under and 1-for-1, it's still less than the average dice roll - though no risk obviously), especially if you are going to buy a couple of stats beyond 14.

If the cost per stat is as follows:
9 1
10 2
11 3
12 4
13 5
14 6
15 8
16 10
17 12
18 14
then one most compute the average point value of the stat, not the point value of the average stat. The latter is 5.5 (average of 13 and 14), the former is 6.5, for a heroic (or epic?) point total of 39.

 

[slaughterj]

Interesting to have added it - I used heroic point-buy previously in Conan, but as follows: base 8 in each stat, plus 33 points to divide as desired, added straight up (i.e., no increasing stages like DnD or this). 33 was used because it was the average of the rolls for heroic Conan stats, which were base 8, plus 1d10. If this heroic rolling method is still included but those are the point-buys given, then it's better to roll the dice (even if everything was 14/under and 1-for-1, it's still less than the average dice roll - though no risk obviously), especially if you are going to buy a couple of stats beyond 14.

If the cost per stat is as follows:
9 1
10 2
11 3
12 4
13 5
14 6
15 8
16 10
17 12
18 14
then one most compute the average point value of the stat, not the point value of the average stat. The latter is 5.5 (average of 13 and 14), the former is 6.5, for a heroic (or epic?) point total of 39.

Sure, under 2e, but I was clearly talking about 1e.

 

[are]

Sure, under 2e, but I was clearly talking about 1e.

You were not talking about 1st edition, there is no point buy system in 1e. You were talking about your own point buy system which you used with 1st edition AND you can still use it if you want to!

BUT the official Mongoose point buy system sucks big time compared to rolling the dice. Yours don't, which is why I aint discussing YOUR point buy system. I was comparing it favourably with the official system, however, you did not understand my post.

 

[slaughterj]

Sure, under 2e, but I was clearly talking about 1e.

You were not talking about 1st edition, there is no point buy system in 1e. You were talking about your own point buy system which you used with 1st edition AND you can still use it if you want to!

Certainly, but still I was talking about 1e, not 2e.

BUT the official Mongoose point buy system sucks big time compared to rolling the dice. Yours don't, which is why I aint discussing YOUR point buy system. I was comparing it favourably with the official system, however, you did not understand my post.

You quoted my post, so you certainly seemed to be discussing my point buy system - and further, your very comment above that you were comparing it favorably to the official system contradicts your statement that you weren't discussing my 1e point-buy system.

And any lack of comprehension about your post would largely be based on the fact that there was little in your post to provide any basis to understand the context for it. Go back and read it, ALL it is is an analysis of 2e point buy in a vacuum, nothing about any analysis of or comparison to anything else.

 

[Sutek]

2e thread, dude.

:roll: