Best Way to Simulate a Rifle?

[Iorwerth]

I was wondering what people thought the best way to represent a rifle would be in the game? The Basic weapon seems to be an Assault Rifle and a Rifle should not be the same, at least in my opinion.

I had a couple of ideas:

1. Works like a Sniper's Rifle for firerate i.e. may only fire once a turn, but it doesn't get the +2 damage bonus.

2. Can fire a shot per action but only counts as 1/2 Dice for Suppression purposes (would need to roll rifles with seperate coloured dice, so you could tell for Suppression purposes)

 

[Mr Evil]

Shout BANG realy loadly

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

Shout BANG realy loadly

a rifle not a blunderbus
:wink:

What rifle, there are many different rifles.

 

[Iorwerth]

A non-Assault rifle was what I had in mind e.g. WW2 Rifle. As to particular model I don't think it really matters apart from range. All Assault Rifles seem to do the same damage, just have different ranges - same for Rifles, I would presume.

 

[Mr Evil]

depends wildly

 

[Iorwerth]

Depends on what?

 

[Mr Evil]

cheap balistic weapon, a hunting rifle, a old WW2 rifle, the calibre, muzzle velocity, accuracy, rifles do range very wildly.

its cheaper to buy a AK47 in some places than a bigmac. and they can be used on single shot, so no need for a rifle when you have a effective weapon for peanuts.

 

[Sgt. Brassones]

If you're talking about something like a Kar98 then I'd give it the following stats:

Range 30" D6+1 counts as half for suppression

Of course an MG42 in the sqaud would make up for the poor suppression.

 

[Larac]

Shrink the Fire Zone to 3" for single shot rifles.

Many are more powerful than Assualt Rifles, in bullet hitting power.

And the 3" Zone would show less lead going down range.

Good Luck
Lee

 

[Turtle]

I disagree. The firezone being 3" was something for original SST, but it doesn't work well now in the new evolution rulesset since there's no concept of autofire rifles. Instead the firezone rule is a more abstract mechanic that simply determines who you can possibly hit in a shoot action, it does not represent, in any way, how much firepower is unleashed in that shoot action.

After all, you've got tank cannons and single shot sniper rifles using the same 6" radius firezone.

As for bolt action rifles, I would simply give it a d6. The +1 stats are all reserved for extra powerful weapons like explosives (grenade launchers), high caliber rounds (vehicle guns like the PLA IFV's cannon), and special circumstances like the combination of sniper training and his high powered scope (the Fedayeen's sniper).

 

[roughneck GIR]

A non-Assault rifle was what I had in mind e.g. WW2 Rifle. As to particular model I don't think it really matters apart from range. All Assault Rifles seem to do the same damage, just have different ranges - same for Rifles, I would presume.

Make it a bolt-action rifle and say you blew a hole through that deer on the other side of the table if you miss the enemy

 

[soulman]

The idea i came up with, and i like, is that bolt action rifles ( not sniper types with scopes etc )

ARE
1D6, as its a standed weapon
Suppression

Cannot suppress on a 2, only on 3+

Assault weapons suppress on 2+ ( 1`s are removed from the table ), so just remove 2`s also, since you always need 4+ to hit, no mess, no checking rules etc

It shows a slower rate of fire weapon, and it can still suppress of course..

Will work well for ww2, like K98 or lee enfield...
And gives balance i think with the m1 semi auto rifle types...

Try and let me know guys
Maybe get in the new WW2 EVO rules..!!

 

[Kenrick Dargoth]

so what about battle rifles?

FN FAL
24" d6+1 normal suppersion

 

[Turtle]

Just longer range would cover a battle rifle, no need for extra damage. Bump up the range to 28" or even 30". This then highlights one of the main reasons why the battle rifle isn't used as much as the assault rifle, the range can be wasted when fighting occurs at closer ranges, such as in urban terrain. But, get a bigger table or play across the short edges on more open terrain, and you've got a situation where battle rifles really help.

Then you have to factor in that the battle rifles can now fire alongside the MG gunner that's usually in a fireteam, that means a lot more suppression at long range, whereas before the assault rifles' 20"-24" range couldn't add much to the the MGs 30" range for suppression.

Guys, you have to realize that the +1 to a d6 means a lot in this game. It should not be used as a way to differentiate variations on normal firearms. There's a lot of interconnectivity between game mechanics in the evolution rules, a small change really can have a big effect elsewhere in the game. It's also why some units that are seemingly not too different on paper play pretty differently on the table.

 

[Iorwerth]

I like Soulman's answer the best so far..

1D6, as its a standed weapon
Suppression
Cannot suppress on a 2, only on 3+

Different types of Rifle could be distinguished by their range, as the AK is from the M16 in the current rules.

This system would also work for Pistols, which would only Suppress on a 4+.

As Tutle pointed out, increasing the damage has a chance of upsetting the game balance. It seems safer, therefore, to adjust the chance of suppression to simulate the slower fire rate, rather than increase the damage.

 

[soulman]

I was going with a long range with single shot rifles to show you have to spend alittle more time aiming, but looking at date books, the K98 and the M1 had same range.
In the game brothers in arms ( xbox ) the K98 is a great accurate weapon, but you do spend more time looking down the sites, grab a M1, and you do just keep pulling the trigger.

So you could add a couple more inches to show for aiming, and long barrel, say 28 or 30 max.
Or go with my idea of suppression on a 3+ for slow firing rifles..
FOR FALKLANDS GAMES

Battle rifle ( AG ) range 28" 1d6 supp : 2+ ( normal )

battle rifle ( UK ) range 28" 1d6 supp : 3+ ( semi auto )

Both was FN FAL, just Uks was not auto..

Try it out people and get back to us, i like to add it to the WW2 EVO rules
Alan

 

[Darkghost]

You guys are forgetting something. Almost all assualt rifles in the modern world are semi- and burst only and do a perfectly good job suppressing. Even in countries that use assault weapons with an auto mode don't support it in their doctrine.

Accurite slow fire suppresses as much or more than a HMG firing at you. Don't beleive me? Go play paintball and see if the guy firing 15-20 shots per second in your general direction scares you as much as the guy firing 1 shot every 1.5 seconds. I can tell you now the accurite rifle-type fire keeps my head down alot more. If someone is spraying near you, its entirely possible to pop out fire and get back in before they can adjust. Someone watching and putting accurite fire on whoever's head is out can adjust very quickly and put you in your place.

Just some thoughts. I've read alot of books on WWII that support this. The MG got people to keep from making a large move, but they still would move from cover to cover, more than if they had 10 guys with KAR98k's firing at thier squad.

 

[soulman]

Hi ghost, i`m not playing paintball..!!!! it bloody hurts...

I do play airsoft, so i do spend most of my games, pinned down, by people using 400 rounds to a mag with a m4, and i play with a m14 with 70 rounds mags on semi auto.. so my head is always down.

I guess we are looking at volume of fire, as accurate fire tends to Kill..!!!
2-3 bullets hitting the wall infront of me, could be wild fire or poor skill, unlike 30+ from a smg etc...

BF has great simple rules, just trying to add flavour without adding to many +1`s etc...

Have you been watching shootout, great stuff indeed.

Man thanks for the reply today Ghost, keep up the ideas, and most of all keep your head down.!!!!

 

[Mr Evil]

i read some where the art of war is supression, it can be more effective than kills.

also for full rules maybe hits should be wounded and kills are just that kills. wounded soildiers are left prone and unit must protect them, or carry them to safty, would realy change the dynamics of the game.

 

[Rick]

FOR FALKLANDS GAMES

Battle rifle ( AG ) range 28" 1d6 supp : 2+ ( normal )

battle rifle ( UK ) range 28" 1d6 supp : 3+ ( semi auto )

Both was FN FAL, just Uks was not auto..

AHEM.

Not just for Falkland games, was used very successfully in Vietnam as well. :shock: