Battlestar Galactica

[locarno24]

Just having a think about a high guard campaign we were planning (had a bit of a session with Razor and a few other episodes recently).

Have started sketching out some ideas for the ships - most of it seems to fit. Planning to use sandcasters loaded with pebble rounds only for autocannon, railguns for cap-ship weapons, and missiles and torpedoes for missiles of appropriate calibres.

Plus nukes. Lots and lots of nukes.

I can see that everything will want to be radiation shielded, that fighters will be unarmoured (or D3 damage will be pointless). Reaction drives and chemical plants for small craft, grav drive for capital ships.

Does it ever hint what galactica's power source is? I'm tempted by fission.

Any sources for the first cylon war in the new series appreciated, as are any suggestions on craft size, etc. Initially thinking standard TL12 for beginning designs...

 

[Old timer]

You might want to check the wiki for Battlestar galactica, lots of info on the ships and tech of the series. The link is below.
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

 

[far-trader]

...Does it ever hint what galactica's power source is? I'm tempted by fission.

Didn't they scram the reactor in one episode, and use pretty much that exact terminology? Or am I misremembering?

Could be they use a pretty advanced but quite conventional fission reactor...

...wait a tic, what about that fuel they were always hunting for and refining. Tibirium? Something like that. Tylium! That's it. I vaguely recall finding some notes on that on the wiki site or a fan site explaining it a while back when I was looking at a BSG themed Traveller universe. Not much help but I'm rushed at the moment, you'll have to google some on your own

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

They were looking for "Tylium".

It as some kind of metallic substance that make the fuel more efficient.

So an advanced Fission reactor might make sense with Tylium being used as a moderator (we use water in most reactors today). Alternately, you could have a Fission reactor, but Tylium makes it more efficient, but you can still run it without Tylium.

 

[locarno24]

Sounds good.

I've worked my way through some quick thought processes and come up with a raider and viper:


1) Viper is a light fighter, roughly equivalent in size to the traveller 'light fighter' (and fairly similar in appearance) so 10 dTons seems okay.

2) The raider will need to be bigger (since it's a 3-man craft) but shouldn't be that much bigger, so we'll stick at 20 dTons.

3) The fighters should be high-G but obviously there's no real feel for how high-G. With artificial gravity on the ships, some sort of inertial protection on the fighters isn't unrealistic. I'll go with 8G for the sake of argument

4) There's no indication that one is inherently superior to the other, so that's the same for both.

5) Colonial forces would have discernably more primitive computer systems because they would not have anything networked if they could avoid it. As a result, I was going to give the viper two model 1 computers rather than one model 2 on the raider. This will result in worse fire control, counterbalanced by colonial pilots being generally better shots than centurions.

6) Endurance - never made clear, but I'm going for about half a day for Vipers; enough for a long patrol, but enough that you can have 'running out of fuel' crises after an hour of intense fighting. Raiders, which are more commonly encountered alone, get more.

7) Going with TL12 for no better reason than it means no extra variations in volume and cost.

8) I'm prepared to class the Raider's wings as aerofins but not the Vipers. Streamlined, yes, but aerofins no.



Viper

Hull: TL12 Class s1 Streamlined Hull - Structure 1
Armour: None
M-Drive: Reaction sD - Thrust 8
M-Drive Fuel: 5 G-Hours (or 50 G-Turns)
P-Plant: Chemical sA - Rating 2
P-Plant Fuel: 12 Hours
Bridge: 1-Man Cockpit
Electronics: Basic Military - DM+0
Manouvring Computer: Model 1 - Rating 5
Software: Manouvre/0
Fire Control Computer: Model 1 - Rating 5
Software: Fire Control/1
Weapons: Cannons (Double Fixed Sandcaster)
Ammunition: 20 Cannon Bursts (Pebble Rounds)

Total Cost: 8.02 MCr
Total Cost including 'standard design' discount: 7.218 MCr
Monthly Maintenance: 669 Cr


Raider

Hull: TL12 Class s2 Streamlined Hull - Structure 1
Armour: None
M-Drive: Reaction sG - Thrust 8
M-Drive Fuel: 9 G-Hours (or 90 G-Turns)
P-Plant: Chemical sA - Rating 1
P-Plant Fuel: 2 Days
Bridge: 3-Man Cockpit
Electronics: Basic Military - DM+0
Computer: Model 2 - Rating 10
Software: Manouvre/0, Fire Control/1, Library
Weapons: Cannons (Double Fixed Sandcaster)
Ammunition: 40 Cannon Bursts (Pebble Rounds)
Extras: Aerofins

Total Cost: 13.45 MCr
Total Cost including 'standard design' discount: 12.105 MCr
Monthly Maintenance: 1121 Cr


Right..... need to have a dig through to try and figure out how many vipers a battlestar carries, etc, before trying the capital ships.

 

[locarno24]

Edit: ?? Where did the reply go??


I'm talking about 'old war' designs. The 'first cylon war' designs seen in Razor are essentially identical to the original series; a rounded wing thing with three-man compartment with pilot and gunner in front and commander above and behind them.

I'm aware that the later Raider is a single entity. Mind you, that one is also jump-capable, so it's going to be a much bigger deal to design, not to mention that it's a significantly higher TL than the colonial fleet, and has missiles as a second weapon.

If the 'war-era' Raiders and Vipers are designed at TL12, then the 'fall-era' designs are going to be TL13. Which, as if by magic, is the TL at which the fully independent, combat-capable Drone Command Unit becomes available.

 

[Old timer]

I meant to edit the old post, but by not paying attention managed to delete it. I realisd my mistake once i re read your original post . Still good designs though. I also read, i think on the BSG wiki, that Battlestars carry around 80 vipers. How big you think Battlestars are in traveller terms?

 

[locarno24]

Not sure about displacement. There's a reference to it being 1.445 km long on wikipedia, but that ends up with a ridiculously huge multi-million dTon ship. Of course it's going to have to have stores and fuel up the yin-yang given how long it will need to be able to operate - later on - but for now we'll see. Probably go for a high end thing, though; 5-600,000 dTons or something.

See how it goes. CV seems appropriate, given what a battlestar is. I think 'Close Structure' is supposed to be about right?

Should have a Teleport Drive, as well.

75-odd vipers, plus some sort of Raptor MkI (not jump capable!) sounds about right. I think that ties up with the description of the Galactica in the original series, too.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I suggest you use the 100-ton Scout as a model for the "Raptor Mk 2". It gives you a jump capable design that is not too overpowering.

 

[far-trader]

I suggest you use the 100-ton Scout as a model for the "Raptor Mk 2". It gives you a jump capable design that is not too overpowering.

I'd just ignore the 100ton minimum for jump capable for a BSG setting and stick to small craft size capable jump ships. Just as I did when I was goofing around with my SW Traveller stuff ages ago

As for the size of capital ships, Hollywood generally goes for massive scale with no consideration of practical limits (they go for a look and kewl model details). Ignore the dimension claims and simply scale it to something that looks/feels right. Your 500Ktons should work. Feels big to me based on the capabilities. I'd more likely design it from the function up. How much Viper and other craft capacity (they took that civilian liner inside one episode didn't they), repair facilities and supplies for same, drives performance, crewing (seemed to have pretty extensive quarters what with all the civilians on board, maybe it was also a troop carrier), weapons (freeze frame one of the big fights and estimate how many, figure some are bay weapons). You'll be hard pressed to come up with ways to assign 500Ktons I think

EDIT: Oh, and armour of course, all of it, max it out and then some. It's a tough old bird.

 

[AndrewW]

Should have a Teleport Drive, as well.

75-odd vipers, plus some sort of Raptor MkI (not jump capable!) sounds about right. I think that ties up with the description of the Galactica in the original series, too.

Well the original Galactica wouldn't have a Teleport Drive, it could accelerate to light speed, though it rarely did.

 

[GJD]

Lots of ammo as well. Bearing in mind that they restocked at Ragnar in the miniseries and then couldn't restock again until they met up with Pegasus, and the batteries on Galactica look to consume ammo at a prodigious rate to get those flak shields up.

G.

 

[locarno24]

Attempt at a Raptor (assume 1st cylon war is pretty much identical to the subsequent fall-of-the-colonies one):

Raptor

Hull: TL12 Class s6 Streamlined Hull - Hull 1, Structure 1
Armour: None
M-Drive: Reaction sM - Thrust 4
M-Drive Fuel: 10 G-Hours (or 100 G-Turns)
P-Plant: Chemical sF - Rating 2
P-Plant Fuel: 1 Day
J-Drive: TL12 Teleport-A - Jump 2
J-Drive Fuel: 2 Jump-1
Bridge: 2-Man Cabin + 6 Passengers
Electronics: Advanced - DM+1
Manouvring Computer: Model 1 - Rating 5
Software: Manouvre/0, Jump Control/1, Library
Fire Control Computer: Model 1 - Rating 5
Software: Fire Control/1
Weapons: Cannons (Double Fixed Sandcaster), Missiles (Double Fixed Missile Rack)
Ammunition: 20 Cannon Bursts (Pebble Rounds), 6 Missiles
Cargo Space: 2 dTons

Total Cost: 19.84 MCr
Total Cost including 'standard design' discount: 17.86 MCr
Monthly Maintenance: 1654 Cr

Lots of ammo as well. Bearing in mind that they restocked at Ragnar in the miniseries and then couldn't restock again until they met up with Pegasus, and the batteries on Galactica look to consume ammo at a prodigious rate to get those flak shields up.

True. Fortunately railgun bays pack in a shedload of integral ammo - the large bay having enough ammunition for over an hour of continuous fully automatic fire even without an external magazine....

Well the original Galactica wouldn't have a Teleport Drive, it could accelerate to light speed, though it rarely did.

Looking at first Cylon War, but new series (i.e. as shown in the flashbacks in Razor)

I'd just ignore the 100ton minimum for jump capable for a BSG setting and stick to small craft size capable jump ships. Just as I did when I was goofing around with my SW Traveller stuff ages ago

That's the plan. A TL12+ Teleport-A is only 7.5 dTons, so it's not impossible to fit on a 60-70 dTon small craft.

500Ktons should work. Feels big to me based on the capabilities.

Started to sketch through - feels big to me as well. 300+ command staff, for example. CIC has something like 40-50 people in the show? Even with shifts, and some secondary stations, that's too many.


The full fighter capability's not that big - 6,500 dTons gets you 75 Vipers and 10 Raptors, crew and technician staterooms, hangars, launch tubes, etc, and a honking big storage deck with 10 full weapon reloads and refuels of all the fighters.

 

[far-trader]

For what it's worth my quick off the cuff tonnage estimate for a Traveller Battlestar starts at about 103Ktons...

Working from the listed crew of 3,500 @ 5tons per (for quarters and supplies) and using the percentages for Bridge and TL12 J2, 6G, P6 with fuel (in CT HG).

Crew requirements of 17,500tons being ~17% of the ship, Bridge, Drives, and fuel being the remaining ~83%.

Factor in the hangers and launch facilities based on the visual impact of them (about 1/3 the ship volume), and adding bridge, drives, and fuel percentages for the extra tonnage, as well as weapons, armor, and cargo and you might be able to stretch it to 150Ktons. All imo of course and based on CT HG and conventional drives. MGT HG (don't have it) and alternate drives may fudge that some. I'd shoot for 100Ktons on a first workup and see how short you are. Redesign if you need a bigger ship, or get creative if you have room left

ADDENDUM: Keeping the same dimensional ratios something in the 100Ktons to 150Ktons size would be about 480m long by 180m wide by 60m high (factoring some hollows in that dimensional cube). About 1/3 the listed dimensions. Not sure how well that actually scales for fitting in the decks and craft. It "feels" not bad but I've not checked it.

 

[locarno24]

Okay.....first pass (at 300 kdTons).
Begin flinging spikey objects.


Valkyrie-class Battlestar

Hull: TL12 Class CS Close Structure, Radiation Shielded - 1,200 Hull, 1,200 Structure, 5 Sections
Armour: Crystaliron - Armour 12
Armoured Bulkheads: Entire Ship

M-Drive: 4,500 dTon Capital Ship M-Drive - Thrust 3
P-Plant: 15,000 dTon Capital Ship Fission Plant & 1,500 dTon Emergency Plant - Rating 3
P-Plant Fuel: 1 Year
J-Drive: 9,000 dTon Capital Ship Teleport Drive - Jump-3
J-Drive Fuel: 2 Jump-2

Bridge: 5 Command Modules & Command Bridge

Electronics: 1 x Distributed Advanced & 4 x Advanced, Improved Signal Processing

Helm Computer: Core/6 - Rating 70
Point Defence Computer: Core/6 x 11 - Rating 70
Fire Control Computer: Core/6 x 2 - Rating 70
Missile Control Computer: Core/6 - Rating 70
Software: Manouvre/0, Jump Control/3, Library, Fire Control/4 x 44

Weapon Hardpoints 1-20: Large Railgun Bay (Resilient, High Yield)
Weapon Hardpoints 21-25: Heavy Missile Bay (Resilient)
Weapon Hardpoints 26-100: Double Turret (Sandcaster/Sandcaster)

Integral Ammunition: 8,000 Railgun Shells
Reserve Ammunition: 32,000 Railgun Shells
Heavy Missile Ammunition: 150 Heavy Missiles
Point Defence Ammunition: 40,000 Pebble Rounds
Nuclear Ordnance: 15 Nuclear Heavy Missiles

Crew: 1394 Staterooms
Passengers: 60 Staterooms (30 Middle Passage, 30 High Passage)
Detention: 6 Barracks

Armouries: 144 Armouries
Briefing Rooms: 10 Briefing Rooms
Luxuries: Steward/28

General Cargo: 1,500 dTons
Passenger Cargo: 50 dTons
Spares: 36,000 dTons - 1 Year's Endurance

Small Craft: 75 Vipers, 10 Raptors, Standard Hangars
Launch Tubes: 2 x Launch Tubes, Vipers only
Universal Hangar Space: 2 x Hangars for 450 dTon ships (e.g Colonial One)
Small Craft P-Plant Fuel Stores: 10 Full Refuels for all fighters
Small Craft M-Drive Fuel Stores: 10 Full Refuels for all fighters
Small Craft Weapons Stores: 10 Full Reloads for all fighters
Nuclear Ordnance: 30 Nuclear Missiles

Crew: Battle Strength - 2779 Crew


182 Command Crew (CO, XO, 180 Command Crew)
361 Engineering Crew (Chief Engineer, 360 Engineers)
721 Service Crew (Deck Chief, 720 Deck Crew)
154 Gunnery Crew (Gunnery Officer, 3 Weapons Chiefs, 150 Gunners)
31 Medical Crew (Chief Surgeon, 30 Medics)
1081 Troops (Master-At-Arms, 1080 Troops)
249 Flight Crew (CAG, 90 Viper Pilots, 90 Viper Techs, 10 Raptor Pilots, 10 Raptor Techs, 8 Visitor Hangar Techs)



Total Cost: 184.679 BCr
Total Cost including 'standard design' discount: 166.211 BCr
Monthly Maintenance: 15,389,918 Cr

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

Wow, Very Impressive, Locarno!

My comments will be linked to the recent BSG series and MgT.

I like the idea of using sandcaster with pebbles to represent the weapons on the vipers, I had thought about using some kind of autocannoneon, but pebbles work better. For some reason I think Raptors in the recent series come in at 50tons, but can't remember where I got that from.

The FTL in BSG is very good, in MgT terms a teleport drive, but powered by the "tylium" stuff, apparently in quite small quanities. These drives can cycle very fast, in one episode the whole fleet (including civie cargo haulers etc, not just Galactica) made multiple "jumps" with only 33 minutes between each one. The distance covered appears to be much less than a parsec, multiple jumps seem to be needed for long distances. Astrogation is clearly important, getting that wrong will put you in the wrong place, but engineering seems to be less important.

So, suggest that all FTL will allow a "jump" of up to one light year, max, using tylium fuel equivelent to 0.5% of displacement for each "jump". Navigation is rolled after the jump, if failed the emergence point will be out by effect multiplied by one light minute per light week jumped. Not a big problem in most cases as you just replot and "spin up the FTL" again, but could be a problem if you had arranged to meet someone at a specific point. No "misjumps", and engineering roll not usually required. Bigger FTL drives required for bigger ships. Ships will cover longer distances by multiple jumps (and still be quicker and more fuel efficient than Traveller jump drive). The jump drive itself could come in at 2% of displacesment, perhaps bigger on small craft.

Anyway, only a few thoughts.

Egil

 

[locarno24]

Well, the 0.1 x Displacement x Jump distance in Parsecs seems okay to me. The rule allows for 'short' hops either within a system or of a light year or so (as in 33 minutes, where the aim is to hop and lose pursuers, not necessarily to go anywhere).


A hop of a light year has a 'Jump Number' of about 0.3, allowing 13 hops in quick succession with the 40% displacement fuel reserve I've given a Valkyrie-class. Half a light year and it's 26. Intrasystem FTL jumps of up to 30 AU (i.e. bouncing anywhere within a star system to anywhere else in the same system out to it's outer gas giants like Uranus), and the Teleport drive can manage some 27,500 sequential jumps.



Had a quick test with the rules. I must say I'm a massive fan of the large bay-mounted railgun battery, simply because the damn thing's so flexible thanks to auto 12.

Fired in burst mode, under manual control with fire control software providing it's full bonus, and you're thumping out +4-to-hit shells that do 3d6+12 damage, upping any '1's to '2's.

Fired in full automatic, and you're letting rip with 6 3d6 shots from each mount - each of which is still more than sufficient to blow the (unarmoured) raiders into tinfoil. With 20 high yield mounts firing in a barrage and enough fire control to put them all into automatic mode, that's
enough to pretty much garuantee 100+ raider kills per turn of fire, even before the 150 sandcaster mounts open up.

Add that to the fact that said raider wing is stuck with a return barrage of 50-sandcaster-close-1/2 and you're stuck with needing something like a 11+ on the attack roll to even dink a battlestar's hull for something like 5-10 damage.