Base vs Stem - Purchase depends on an answer

[Rorschach]

Sorry to bring this up again buuuutttt...

I'd really like to order some Gaim before The End. However, those nagging questions about suicide fighters and breach pods, and the possible UN-ease of play have me hesitating.

So, I appeal for some sort of official answer to the following, on how the attacks of Suicide Fighters (Gaim or Dilgar) and Breach Pods work:

1) Is "contact with the ship" firmly defined as Base Contact (including overlap)? Or is it Peg contact only?
[Note: It is obvious and realized that Peg Contact either means only TWO Flights can contact, or that flights must be removed as they hit. See question below]

2) As these attackers make contact, are they left in place until AF is resolved (thus making a maximum to what can fit around the target, and making larger bases more vulnerable)? Does this answer differ between Suicide Fighters vs Breach Pods? I.e. Will they get in each other's way (as in, I can only fit so many attack craft in there, I have to choose which)
[Note: During one recent game, we interpreted for that moment that Breach Pods were removed as they hit, while suicide fighters had to cluster round. We later rethought it...and are now thoroughly confused]

3) It's been stated that Suicide Fighters ignore Interceptors. Do they ignore Shields or GEG or Dodges as well? We assumed not, since nothing says they do - but its worth asking.

4) If Suicide Fighters are affected by GEG, do they all count as a single attack (as per normal fighter attacks) or as individual attacks. Again - we assumed that they group together, but its worth asking.

5) Can Breach Pods be Dodged? (We assumed no)
If so, do they remain around to try again next turn?

House rules and such are always feasible, but when deciding on a major fleet purchase (including a LOT of Skrunnkas) , it is always desirable to have a firm answer. (So please don't bother with House Rule discussions here )
This also affects whether I get a second Garasoch or not.

Thanks in advance for any help, especially the official sort !
Dale

 

[Triggy]

Sorry to bring this up again buuuutttt...

I'd really like to order some Gaim before The End. However, those nagging questions about suicide fighters and breach pods, and the possible UN-ease of play have me hesitating.

So, I appeal for some sort of official answer to the following, on how the attacks of Suicide Fighters (Gaim or Dilgar) and Breach Pods work:

1) Is "contact with the ship" firmly defined as Base Contact (including overlap)? Or is it Peg contact only?
[Note: It is obvious and realized that Peg Contact either means only TWO Flights can contact, or that flights must be removed as they hit. See question below]

2) As these attackers make contact, are they left in place until AF is resolved (thus making a maximum to what can fit around the target, and making larger bases more vulnerable)? Does this answer differ between Suicide Fighters vs Breach Pods? I.e. Will they get in each other's way (as in, I can only fit so many attack craft in there, I have to choose which)
[Note: During one recent game, we interpreted for that moment that Breach Pods were removed as they hit, while suicide fighters had to cluster round. We later rethought it...and are now thoroughly confused]

3) It's been stated that Suicide Fighters ignore Interceptors. Do they ignore Shields or GEG or Dodges as well? We assumed not, since nothing says they do - but its worth asking.

4) If Suicide Fighters are affected by GEG, do they all count as a single attack (as per normal fighter attacks) or as individual attacks. Again - we assumed that they group together, but its worth asking.

5) Can Breach Pods be Dodged? (We assumed no)
If so, do they remain around to try again next turn?

House rules and such are always feasible, but when deciding on a major fleet purchase (including a LOT of Skrunnkas) , it is always desirable to have a firm answer. (So please don't bother with House Rule discussions here )
This also affects whether I get a second Garasoch or not.

Thanks in advance for any help, especially the official sort !
Dale

1) This question isn't officially resolved yet! A majority play it to the base but plenty play it to the stem too.

2) Both pods and suicide fighters are left in place until after AF fire is resolved.

3) They ignore Interceptors but they don't ignore any other form of defence.

4) They do not group together into a single attack. Normal fighter attacks don't group together either.

5) Breaching Pods can't be Dodged as there is no attack roll.

 

[Iain McGhee]

Not official, best to try Rulesmasters for that and attach an "official answers only" tag.

1: In the trait description for Breaching Pods it states that they need to get into base contact to land troops. There's been no official ruling about suicide fighters but given that all ship measurements use the stem I'd assume that they had to touch it to attack. It reads "make contact" for suicide craft and "base contact" for Breaching Pods (and skindancers) so I would expect that they are not treated the same.

2: AF fire is conducted after all fighter movement is completed, so only a limited number can be placed in contact each turn. Boarding actions are initiated in the attack phase, so Breaching Pods should probably be left in base contact until the fighter attack phase is complete.

3: Shields, GEG and Dodge affect suicide fighters in the same manner as any other direct attack.

4: Each flight that makes contact counts as if it was a single weapons system (i.e. resolve each as seperate attacks).

5: Breaching pods can't be Dodged.

 

[Rorschach]

There's been no official ruling about suicide fighters but given that all ship measurements use the stem I'd assume that they had to touch it to attack. It reads "make contact" for suicide craft and "base contact" for Breaching Pods (and skindancers) so I would expect that they are not treated the same.

I generally don't see a real difference between "contact" and "base contact". If the fighter counter was removed from the table as it hit the stem, I'd buy that instead, easy. But then almost any amount of fighters in range could Suicide into a ship (which, while nasty, makes more sense than limiting to only two stands that could physically fit there)

Let's hope the official answer is consistent one way or the other.
But it might be too late to sway my Gaim purchase. Right now, I'm thinking of just getting 1 Stuteeka and 1 Skruunka for my League Fleet, as the overall Gaim Fleet just isn't "interesting" enough. Nothing but Turret emines is DULL, which means all the Queenships are dull. If I were to do a real Gaim fleet, it would end up like
1 Battle lvl Queen
1 Raid lvl Queen
1 Stuteeka
6 Skruunka Assault ships
Nothing but Beams and Breach Pods...but again, not THAT interesting in quantity.
Its all a shame, because I LOVE the Art Deco ship designs... and the idea of not having them makes me sad.

 

[silashand]

as the overall Gaim Fleet just isn't "interesting" enough. Nothing but Turret emines is DULL, which means all the Queenships are dull. If I were to do a real Gaim fleet, it would end up like
1 Battle lvl Queen
1 Raid lvl Queen
1 Stuteeka
6 Skruunka Assault ships
Nothing but Beams and Breach Pods...but again, not THAT interesting in quantity.
Its all a shame, because I LOVE the Art Deco ship designs... and the idea of not having them makes me sad.

As I am learning, that's exactly the problem I have with the Gaim. They are a bit too dull for my tastes. Between only having emines and having to move all those fighters all the time it gets tedious. Nice ships, but 'meh' rules IMO. I think that's mostly due to inconsistencies, but a bit more variety would be nice. Of course you could say thay with a lot of the league fleets unfortunately.

Cheers, Gary