Babylon 5 Traveller is coming

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I hope that is how they do it as well.

There are provisions in the Traveller Core book for Jump Gates (I think they are called hyperdrives). But I don't know how compatible in size etc, they are with the published B5 drives.

I also hope that a B5 sourcebook for Traveller doesn't kill the B5 D20 game. It shouldn't, you deserve your own game!

 

[Faënril]

look like jump gate in Gurps Space 3ed edition.

 

[AKAmra]

I think you're misunderstanding me, deck plans are pretty much system neutral are they not, I mean c'mon, they're pictures.

I just don't want a different sets of pictures for each rule set. You may laugh, but it could happen.

LBH

My point was that if your talking about the basic ship designs that make the most sense to include in a new edition of the game, then they should be included in the MGT version of B5. It's absurd to presume that the MGT version of B5 is going to refer the new customer to buy the core book of the OGL version of B5 if they want the deck plans to the most common ships in the game. This may not be convenient for those that already have these deck plans because they have the OGL version of the game, but again, this is a new version of B5 - not an expansion for OGL B5.

Repeats for basic ship layouts for a different rule version of a setting isn't laughable, it's logical.

 

[-Daniel-]

I think you're misunderstanding me, deck plans are pretty much system neutral are they not, I mean c'mon, they're pictures.

I just don't want a different sets of pictures for each rule set. You may laugh, but it could happen.

LBH

My point was that if your talking about the basic ship designs that make the most sense to include in a new edition of the game, then they should be included in the MGT version of B5. It's absurd to presume that the MGT version of B5 is going to refer the new customer to buy the core book of the OGL version of B5 if they want the deck plans to the most common ships in the game. This may not be convenient for those that already have these deck plans because they have the OGL version of the game, but again, this is a new version of B5 - not an expansion for OGL B5.

Repeats for basic ship layouts for a different rule version of a setting isn't laughable, it's logical.

I have to agree with AKAmra here. If I am new to the idea of a B5 RPG 9And I am having not bought any of the older versions.) then I am not going to be happy to see a comment like "Now go buy our other version of the game to receive the deck plans". This would be a deal breaker for me. I would not be willing to buy the game at that point.

Daniel

 

[tneva82]

I have to agree with AKAmra here. If I am new to the idea of a B5 RPG 9And I am having not bought any of the older versions.) then I am not going to be happy to see a comment like "Now go buy our other version of the game to receive the deck plans". This would be a deal breaker for me. I would not be willing to buy the game at that point.

Daniel

Well traveller B5 is going to get deckplans for every ship included in traveller B5 rules. That's given. Obviously D20 B5 fans wish same deckplans for themselves so obvious solution is for Mongoose to release deckplans for D20 crowd as well. Either in separate book or maybe in S&P or PDF on website.

should cover every side right?

 

[Da Boss]

Well, they can't be too system neutral since the SIZE of things determines how much space they take up.

Traveller for example has HUGE fuel tanks (10%-60% of the total volume) for starships. I don't think B5 designs have that much fuel.

A bridge in Traveller is 10-20 displacement tons (1 dton is 14 m^3). B5 I am pretty sure uses a different size.

So, that means that a map of the bridge/fuel areas of a ship shouldn't be the same for both systems.

Also what bits I have seen of traveller ship deisgns - they are blocky things which probably work ok with graph paper style floorplans? B5 ships seem to be designed to look really cool on screen and I doubt much thought was taken about the interior being mapable? Many are very organic in apperance with a lot of curves and odd angles.

Also the size of B5 ships is large - even a White Star maybe the size of a aircraft carrier I am told, never mind a Sharlin Class War Cruiser........

Some bits are really cool looking - rotating gravity on the Omega but may be difficult to reconcile? (might end up with dangerous areas like in Galaxy Quest?)

the Planet Mongoose article seemed to suggest that the B5 ships are all being mapped but I would guess its perhaps the smaller ones and maybe the Whitestar - else thats going to be a HUGE book and/or with very very small scale maps?

The large scale ships will be a bit like trying to map out the interior of a 40K Emperor Class Battleship - daunting and IMHO of limited use!

 

[lastbesthope]

Repeats for basic ship layouts for a different rule version of a setting isn't laughable, it's logical.

It is laughable, think of it in a RL setting.

I want to set a mission on an aircraft carrier, let's say the Nimitz, should the layout of the ship plans change because I'm playing in Spycraft 2.0 instead of d20 modern, I think not.

The existing ship plans are rules neutral, I only ask that any future ship plans remain similarly ruleset neutral.

LBH

 

[AKAmra]

Repeats for basic ship layouts for a different rule version of a setting isn't laughable, it's logical.

It is laughable, think of it in a RL setting.

I want to set a mission on an aircraft carrier, let's say the Nimitz, should the layout of the ship plans change because I'm playing in Spycraft 2.0 instead of d20 modern, I think not.

The existing ship plans are rules neutral, I only ask that any future ship plans remain similarly ruleset neutral.

LBH

Okay, I think I misunderstood your issue. Earlier up-thread the concern seemed to be that MGT/B5 would include ship designs that have already been done for the OGL version of the setting, and that was what I was addressing.

I don't have an opinion on changing the mapping style. I don't have a problem with "rules neutral" deck plans, I just want playable plans and ship rules.

 

[-Daniel-]

Repeats for basic ship layouts for a different rule version of a setting isn't laughable, it's logical.

It is laughable, think of it in a RL setting.

I want to set a mission on an aircraft carrier, let's say the Nimitz, should the layout of the ship plans change because I'm playing in Spycraft 2.0 instead of d20 modern, I think not.

The existing ship plans are rules neutral, I only ask that any future ship plans remain similarly ruleset neutral.

LBH

Okay, I think I misunderstood your issue. Earlier up-thread the concern seemed to be that MGT/B5 would include ship designs that have already been done for the OGL version of the setting, and that was what I was addressing.

I don't have an opinion on changing the mapping style. I don't have a problem with "rules neutral" deck plans, I just want playable plans and ship rules.

It seemed to me as well that what was being said was there was no need to have deck plans in a Traveller rule book. If all you are asking for is that the deck plans stay the same then that makes sense to me. But do not put out a version and think that the new people can just go buy the old version to get parts like deck plans. That is not good business.

Daniel

 

[lastbesthope]

But the deck plans for B5 are standalone supplements, you don't need to buy the rulebook to get them. There aren't any deck plans in the B5 Rulebooks. Well there are some very large scale B5 station maps, but nothing you could use to move minis around on.

LBH

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I would expect that Traveller: B5 will only have a few ships (the basic ones) such as the White Star, an Earth Force Destroyer, A Minbari Cruiser a Narn and Centauri ship, maybe the Asimov or a similar liner/freighter.

I doubt very much that the book would include EVERY ship.

 

[AKAmra]

But the deck plans for B5 are standalone supplements, you don't need to buy the rulebook to get them. There aren't any deck plans in the B5 Rulebooks. Well there are some very large scale B5 station maps, but nothing you could use to move minis around on.

LBH

We have gone full circle, I again don't understand your point. I don't know if the MGT/B5 book will contain any ship maps or stats, but Mongoose has also announced a big MGT/B5 ship book with maps and stats. This book may reuse OGL ship maps, or it may use a new style, but they will have MGT/B5 stats which will be compatible with the MGT/B5 core book. This is my opinion on how it will shake out, I don't have any inside information.

I imagine that the future for MGT/B5 will depend on the sales of the core book and ship book.

 

[rje]

The Big Deal with conversion is always related to game mechanics rather than physical layout. A human is a human -- that's physical layout. But in d20, a human has Wisdom, but in Traveller, he has Education. That requires a mapping for the sake of game mechanics.

Characters will be the challenging and interesting things to map. Characteristics and skills, and how to handle feats, will make or break the translation. I think. To a lesser degree, weapons and armour.

So probably, a ship book will have MGT stats listed for B5 ships, but will represent the Babylon 5 universe rather than the official Traveller universe. That's the "conversion". A ship has a speed through hyperspace, not a jump drive rating in parsecs. That's a mechanic Mongoose Traveller will have to allow to support B5, but that's really no big deal.

In other words, B5 ships won't be the same as ships of the Imperium. They won't have jump drives, and they won't carry huge quantities of hydrogen/water fuel. They won't use sandcasters, nor will they have energy screens. Their fighters will be able to slip into hyperspace, etc etc. That's just setting detail.

The components will take up the same amount of space as on B5, ships will be the same length and have the same layout, but values used in the rules mechanics will probably be ported. Thus a Starfury will look like a Starfury and work like a Starfury ought to under MGT, as it does under B5, to whatever level is acceptable to Mongoose and B5 fans.

I'm assuming that the combat systems of MGT and B5 are different, of course. I don't know that for sure. It could be that Mongoose was exceedingly clever and lucky and were able to design MGT to be easily compatible... anyone know?

Deckplans, unless I am mistaken, can be gotten from existing B5 supplements; so folks crossing over to B5 from MGT will buy the existing B5 supplements -- which is a win-win for Mongoose.

 

[AKAmra]

I agree with most of your points and I think that's how it should be, B5 ships should be B5 ships, just using the MGT rules (with variations to fit the setting).

The one point of disagreement is MGT players will buy d20 books for deck plans. It has been announced that the MGT book of B5 ships will include deck plans for every ship stated out (in the MGT B5 ship book, not every ship covered in the d20 line. I don't think the MGT B5 ship book will be THAT big).

The only way I can see MGT B5 players buying the d20 ship books is if there is also MGT/B5 ship construction rules and/or conversion rules which could allow for the use of d20 ship books for deck plans.

As someone who has gone down the road of buying d20 products for fluff or to convert to a system I prefer, there is going to have to be a very strong reason supported with easy to use and great conversion rules for me to take the bait. I just dumped a lot of d20 stuff I was planning on getting around to convert and it just wasn't worth the trouble. I'm not going to pay full price for books where half the page count is wasted money. So, that win-win scenario for Mongoose is possible, but it's going to take some hard-core rules support to happen.

 

[tneva82]

I would expect that Traveller: B5 will only have a few ships (the basic ones) such as the White Star, an Earth Force Destroyer, A Minbari Cruiser a Narn and Centauri ship, maybe the Asimov or a similar liner/freighter.

I doubt very much that the book would include EVERY ship.

Speaking of new settings, Babylon 5 will indeed be appearing in Traveller. This is not a new edition, as some of our fans have feared, but a simple setting book. Packed to the rafters, it will feature new Events tables for careers (tying them directly into the background), a few ships of course, rules for altering Traveller to use real time communications across the stars and jump gates, and so on. Just a few ships, I hear you ask? Well, following the main B5 sourcebook (coming out in December this year), we are also going to produce one more - the Big Book of Ships (working title!). What will make B5 fans go dippy over this one is that it will follow our Traveller mandate for ships - every single one will have deck plans!

The few ships you mention will probably be in rulebook. Sounds like the sourcebook will contain LOT more(and since each ship won't take more than 2-3 pages at most looking at traveller book handful of ships would mean pretty skinny book!).

 

[tneva82]

A ship has a speed through hyperspace, not a jump drive rating in parsecs. That's a mechanic Mongoose Traveller will have to allow to support B5, but that's really no big deal.

And funny enough there's alternative drives in MgT book including what looks suspiciously lot like hyper space :wink:

I'm assuming that the combat systems of MGT and B5 are different, of course.

Looking how traveller uses 2d6+modifiers try to beat 8 system vs d20+modifiers vs defence yeah. Some differences. But would be pretty silly to have 2 games which are same

Deckplans, unless I am mistaken, can be gotten from existing B5 supplements; so folks crossing over to B5 from MGT will buy the existing B5 supplements -- which is a win-win for Mongoose.

Nah they will put deckplans to traveller supplements. Their policy with traveller. Deck plans for each ship.

 

[Nerroth]

So the B5 RPG will foloow the likes of Prime Directive into multi-platform-ness, eh?


Cool.


Any word on other potential conversions - such as to the likes of GURPS, or D20 Modern?

 

[lastbesthope]

Any word on other potential conversions - such as to the likes of GURPS, or D20 Modern?

Technically they haven't even completed the first (promised) conversion yet.

LBH

 

[Babylon 5 Aide]

LBH I will second you on your very first post on this topic.

 

[Allensh]

I'd like to see deck plans of the station with half-inch squares like the old Azhanti High Lightning deck plans <g>

Yeah right...

Allen