Ask MongooseMatt ANYTHING!!!

[Terry Mixon]

Okay, not really anything, but when we post questions about the rules or potential typos in the feedback area, we often don't receive a response, so I'm creating this thread in the hopes of getting some response to questions we have, even if it is "we're looking at that" or some such.

I'll kick this off with a question I posted a few days ago. The emergency low berths in High Guard 2022 Update are listed at MC1 a pop. Seems real pricy since Mongoose 1e and all the previous versions of Traveller we checked had it being KCr100. In Mongoose 1e, it was listed as MCr.1 and we suspect a typo. Can we get some clartity on that so we can update the starship build sheet to reflect what we suspect if we're right? Thanks.

Also, allow me to suggest that adding KCr, BCr (or GCr to please @Geir), and TCr to your repertoire would be really helpful and would minimize the complaints about not having comma separation in your big numbers, too.

And sorry for all the wild AMA questions you're about to get @MongooseMatt.

 

[Arkathan]

the rules say ALL Staterooms take Cr.1000 per maint period life support irregardless of the fact 0, 1, or 2 people are living in them, then you pay Cr.1000 per maint period for every person aboard, I don't get how this is confusing or a problem, I agree, I think the spreadsheet really needs to drop the single/double occupancy differentiation, it's not part of ship design.

Actually, it is.
Passengers want single occupancy. Crew may accept double occupancy. You want to know at a glance that you have the correct number of staterooms, and you do not want to over or under design on that score.
Recording single or double staterooms separately gives you that count. Especially if you are not designing ships all the time and just want something easy that you can expect to be accurate... or at least more accurate than if done by hand with pen and paper.

When comfort level is considered, and factored into morale, this becomes more relevant. When space = increased morale, that single occupancy stateroom provides a larger increase to moral or passenger satisfaction.

 

[Condottiere]

Considering gyms would require increased oxygen regeneration.

And water for the showers.

 

[MongooseMatt]

To wit: do leaders (officers) aboard ship double bunk or go solo as the Mongoose default?

Some officers will double up. We almost always give the highest-ranking officers their own staterooms. You might find exceptions, but there will almost always be a reason for it.

 

[MongooseMatt]

And that comfort rule will likely be implemented in the next High Guard update.

I am not sure where you have got this idea from - there are no such plans.

Tell me the default on exploratory ships, privately-owned vessels and, especially, military ships like quoted above is double occupancy and the rest is single occupancy, and I can work with that. I'd still need to know if military officers are single or double, but I could figure it out from there.

I think this is where you are taking a bit of a left turn at the traffic lights - there is no such default. There cannot be. When you have a universe so vast, covering so many different companies and shipyards and cultures and militaries, there cannot be a default that is adhered to across Charted Space. Therefore, the design system has to remain flexible.

I honestly think you are trying to place an assumption into the rules that is just not there.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Imperial standardization - within the Imperium all civilian ships have to allocate one 4 ton stateroom per person.
This has been a thing for a very long time, with rule sets such at GURPS:T and T4 defining Imperial standardisation.

Imperial standardisation is a setting element, not a rules thing, and this is where the slow creep to MgT2e being the Third Imperim role playing game comes in, but in revese.

Within the Imperium it is 4 tons per person, beyond the Imperium you can do what you like.

 

[Condottiere]

I'll go with that - if you have to dock at an Imperium run starport.

Confederation commercial starships would have to follow that rule, if they wish to do the same.

Confederation starwarships within Imperium space do not.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Imperial standardization - within the Imperium all civilian ships have to allocate one 4 ton stateroom per person.
This has been a thing for a very long time, with rule sets such at GURPS:T and T4 defining Imperial standardisation.

That is a rules convenience, one we picked up on too because, well, why not? If it ain't broke...

However, it is a very different thing to say that all staterooms must be like that, so it is written so it must be. For example (silly example), if we were ever to do Special Supplement: 21 Staterooms, we would absolutely explore what else is possible (beyond the High and Luxury staterooms we have already introduced).

So, why don't we?

Honestly... we just don't find staterooms to be all that exciting, so we stick to what is there. Now, what you put in a stateroom, well, that is a different matter altogether, and is exactly why we have the Creature Comforts chapter in CSC (which absolutely needs expanding!).

 

[MasterGwydion]

That is a rules convenience, one we picked up on too because, well, why not? If it ain't broke...

However, it is a very different thing to say that all staterooms must be like that, so it is written so it must be. For example (silly example), if we were ever to do Special Supplement: 21 Staterooms, we would absolutely explore what else is possible (beyond the High and Luxury staterooms we have already introduced).

So, why don't we?

Honestly... we just don't find staterooms to be all that exciting, so we stick to what is there. Now, what you put in a stateroom, well, that is a different matter altogether, and is exactly why we have the Creature Comforts chapter in CSC (which absolutely needs expanding!).

Honestly, My problem is this. A Standard Double Occupancy Stateroom is 4 tons. This means 2 tons per person. If all staterooms are designed for double occupancy, then are Barracks also double occupancy? Brigs? Low Berth? Is double occupancy the default on High and Luxury Staterooms as well? If so, can I just cut the size of the Staterooms in half? (2 tons per person Standard, 3 tons High, 5 tons Luxury, and what? 0.5 tons per person in a Barracks? How about a Low-Berth? Is that double-occupancy as well?

If this is true, than the life supports costs would change as well, because a 2-ton Stateroom is different than a 4-ton stateroom.

The easiest solution is to simply declare how many tons of space is required per person per level of stateroom. Is a 2-ton Stateroom a Standard Stateroom, or does it have to be 4 tons to be a standard stateroom? What about High? Are those 3 tons per person? Luxury? 5 tons per person? Are they then priced differently since their size is different? How about how much passengers pay? Does a passenger pay the same for a 4-ton Single-Occupancy Standard Stateroom as they would for a double-occupancy or for a 2-ton Standard Stateroom?

These are not setting questions. They are rule questions, since the prices listed for these things is in the Trade section of the CRB.

...and you know the really stupid part? If Mongoose just gave listed staterooms on a single occupancy, none of this discussion would be needed. Here is the cost per stateroom per person. Easy.

Watch below
Type Tonnage Price/unit Lifesupport/unit Lifesupport/sophont
Standard 2 tons 0.25MCr 500Cr 1,000Cr
High 3 tons 0.4MCr 1,500Cr 1,000Cr
Luxury 5 tons 0.75MCr 2,500Cr 1,000Cr

Also, page 154 of the CRB,

"This cost covers supplies for the life support system as well as food and water, although meals at this level will be rather spartan."

This quote is for life support costs per stateroom, not per person, so you are paying for food and water regardless of if the room is empty or not. So, if the cost per stateroom includes food and water and life support, what does the 1,000Cr per person pay for? Increased quality of food?

 

[Terry Mixon]

I am not sure where you have got this idea from - there are no such plans.



I think this is where you are taking a bit of a left turn at the traffic lights - there is no such default. There cannot be. When you have a universe so vast, covering so many different companies and shipyards and cultures and militaries, there cannot be a default that is adhered to across Charted Space. Therefore, the design system has to remain flexible.

I honestly think you are trying to place an assumption into the rules that is just not there.

Possibly. Okay I’ll just keep advising what I do based on the rules as written then. Thanks.

 

[Condottiere]

The other question that could be asked, is, why does a stateroom cost half a megastarbux?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Personally, I think a double occupancy stateroom for paying passengers should be the size of the next largest stateroom. In other words, a High stateroom can be a double occupancy Middle. Double occupancy High is Luxury and a double Luxury is just bigger. No bunks for paying passengers.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Personally, I think a double occupancy stateroom for paying passengers should be the size of the next largest stateroom. In other words, a High stateroom can be a double occupancy Middle. Double occupancy High is Luxury and a double Luxury is just bigger. No bunks for paying passengers.

I often use single occupancy for all of My ship designs for all staterooms at the sizes listed in the book. Officers get single occupancy on the next level stateroom. If the ship is big enough, Captain (or Admiral or Commodore) gets a Luxury Stateroom or a double High joined together.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Some officers will double up. We almost always give the highest-ranking officers their own staterooms. You might find exceptions, but there will almost always be a reason for it.

Then in my head I’ll imagine the captain and up to two more (executive officer and chief engineer) will fit that category as long as the ship is large enough to warrant them. Thanks.

 

[WHULorigan]

Actually, it is.
Passengers want single occupancy. Crew may accept double occupancy. You want to know at a glance that you have the correct number of staterooms, and you do not want to over or under design on that score.
Recording single or double staterooms separately gives you that count. Especially if you are not designing ships all the time and just want something easy that you can expect to be accurate... or at least more accurate than if done by hand with pen and paper.

When comfort level is considered, and factored into morale, this becomes more relevant. When space = increased morale, that single occupancy stateroom provides a larger increase to moral or passenger satisfaction.

Passengers want single occupancy if they are unmarried. They want double occupancy if they are.

 

[boggo2300]

Passengers want single occupancy if they are unmarried. They want double occupancy if they are.

not ALWAYS...

 

[Arkathan]

Passengers want single occupancy if they are unmarried. They want double occupancy if they are.

But as MasterGwydion alluded to, that should be middle charge, each, for a double occupancy high stateroom.
A double occupancy Middle Stateroom should be a budget deal.

 

[Condottiere]

How much can furnishing cost?

I'm sure there is an IKEAerospace store for the budgetary minded.

 

[WHULorigan]

not ALWAYS...

True, but that is beyond the scope of the design sequence . . .

 

[boggo2300]

Well according to HG2022 all passengers expect Single Occupancy Staterooms. sure sometimes they may want to share a cabin, but thats again an operational decision not related to ship design

 

[MongooseMatt]

Well according to HG2022 all passengers expect Single Occupancy Staterooms. sure sometimes they may want to share a cabin, but thats again an operational decision not related to ship design

For passengers we tend to assume one per, unless the ship is really a 'pack 'em in' type design.