Art and feedback: Riot Gun "Snub Cannon"

[wbnc]

"People laugh at your dinky snub gun? mock yer taser? tired of your rounds pancaking on heavy armor.....well no more of that guff....Here at Rhictor Heavy Industries, we are proud to give our hardworking Security Forces the firepower to deal with even the best equipped of thugs...or the rare rampaging Rhino."

this is an idea I had after the snub pistol and other discussions. A more powerful Security weapon designed for shipboard and riot control as well as regular combat.

Basically, it's a modified shotgun design Firing a self propelled round. It can function in semi-automatic, of pump action models, and holds five 25mm rounds. The rounds are an advanced gyro jet round given a slight initial boost by a small slug of caseless propellant at the rear of the shell, then accelerated down the barrel.its spin stabilized using small angled nozzles at the rear of the round to start the round spinning as it flies down the tube.

It can fire all the same types as a Snub Pistol including gas, explosive, baton, flare and practice rounds. Although loading a tranq round into this thing would be a tricky proposition the impact of such a heavy round would potential break the needle, although you could put multiple smaller tranq rounds into one shell and fire off multiple darts instead of one.Instead of ball ammunition, the weapon is designed to fire shotgun shells so it ca also fire the same rounds as a standard shotgun. if it is firing lethal shotgun rounds it has a bit of a kick but the weight of the weapon would help to absorb that to some degree.

It can be loaded through the underside of the breech, using single rounds or using a detachable tube "Speed Stick" inserted front the front of the weapon. Themagazieis inserted into the weapon pushed into place then given a twist to lock it into place and release spring loaded clips that hold the shells in place so they can feed normally. when empty the stick is extracted discarded and a fresh one inserted.

If firing lethal explosive rounds it ca fire either HE, HE-Frag, or HEAT these would have about the same punch as a light duty RAM Launcher giving a ship crew a very potent weapon for those clever apes who like to wear heavy armor. and Riot police would have a light duty anti-vehicle or barricade gun without having t carry both a riot weapon and a lethal weapon. Since it is capable of a fairly lethal punch it might even be useful for Military use as a light duty grenade launcher.

You could make a model of this weapon in box, or drum fed models, or even a double barrel "sport/survival" weapon.

 

[steve98052]

One way to reduce the recoil of a shot round would be to fire a canister round that pops a secondary propellant charge timed to blow after it's a safe distance from the muzzle, blowing shot forward and dense backfire dust back toward the gun. Make sure you're wearing your safety goggles!

 

[wbnc]

One way to reduce the recoil of a shot round would be to fire a canister round that pops a secondary propellant charge timed to blow after it's a safe distance from the muzzle, blowing shot forward and dense backfire dust back toward the gun. Make sure you're wearing your safety goggles!

The Issue of backblast from 25mm gyro jet wouldn't be that serious. The original Gyrojets were 13 mm and the worst the shooter felt was a warm breeze. A very small propelling charge would be enough to get the round moving and ignite the internal propulsion charge.At worst it would have a very slight kick.

 

[Condottiere]

Should be no recoil, since the large frame would absorb it.

Still kinda bulky, though.

 

[wbnc]

Should be no recoil, since the large frame would absorb it.

Still kinda bulky, though.

Not much more bulky than a combat shotgun.the fact it is firing a small RAM grenade gives it a LOT of firepower for its bulk. An alternate design using box magazines would be a bit more compact lengthwise but you still need a good bit of bulk if yu plan on firing full sized shotshells out of it in addition to snub rounds.

 

[Condottiere]

In the rules, our shotguns are bulky.

 

[wbnc]

In the rules, our shotguns are bulky.

Yeah it seems that in order to tame the recoil of a shotgun you need a rather hefty weapon the USAS 12, and SPAS-12 are big guns,


Since this is a 25mm bore on the gun for firing extra large snub rounds...it's Larger than a 10 gauge by 5mm it would be a beast to fire. So I'd have to add that the shot is contained in a cup/sleeve until it exits the barrel With is bore diameter it could fire shells that are the equivalent of 12,10 or 8 gauge with no trouble..other than a sore shoulder and ringing in the ears.

 

[steve98052]

In terms of gauge, a 25 mm bore would be roughly 5 gauge, based on the definition of gauge, which is the number of lead balls that fit the bore that can be made from one pound of lead.
453 g/pound / (4/3 pi × 1.25 cm^3 × 11.34 g/cm^3) = 4.89 /pound

To allow it to propel a useful amount of shot at a useful velocity would take a lot of propellant. In a conventional gun, it would have a tremendous, Battle Dress scale kick. With a recoilless gun, the back blast would be substantial, but it could be fired without power armor. (Just don't stand right behind it, and don't forget your ear protection.) A rocket would need time (and distance) to get up to velocity, and would still need a charge to spread shot after the rocket burns out. A shell open at both ends, ejecting shot forward and dust backward from a short distance beyond the muzzle, would probably perform most like a giant shotgun.

 

[wbnc]

In terms of gauge, a 25 mm bore would be roughly 5 gauge, based on the definition of gauge, which is the number of lead balls that fit the bore that can be made from one pound of lead.
453 g/pound / (4/3 pi × 1.25 cm^3 × 11.34 g/cm^3) = 4.89 /pound

To allow it to propel a useful amount of shot at a useful velocity would take a lot of propellant. In a conventional gun, it would have a tremendous, Battle Dress scale kick. With a recoilless gun, the back blast would be substantial, but it could be fired without power armor. (Just don't stand right behind it, and don't forget your ear protection.) A rocket would need time (and distance) to get up to velocity, and would still need a charge to spread shot after the rocket burns out. A shell open at both ends, ejecting shot forward and dust backward from a short distance beyond the muzzle, would probably perform most like a giant shotgun.

I have a couple of solutions to the bore size/combined projectile mass issue.

1) use a plastic sabot with a cavity at the center to hold a smaller amount of shot, roughly the same as a 12, or 10 gauge.ad adjust the "powder" charge to suit the mass of the shot and sabot to give lethal power to the shot

drawback: it would be a waste of a lot of potential capacity int he shell. and since it is a standard shotgun round it would be far from recoilless.

2) Use a standard self-propelled snub round..but the payload would be a small explosive charge with shot arranged in front of the charge so that it created a conical blast of shot when it detonated. The round would be either timed or proximity fused so that if would detonate a set distance from the muzzle, or detonated at a set distance from the target.

Since it is a self-propelled round would have minimal recoil.The shot would be directed instead of going off in every direction like an airburst round so it could be used at very close range without risk of stray projectiles hitting the shooter.

Drawback: more complicated and more expensive than a simple shotgun round.

 

[Condottiere]

The largest calibre appears to be the four gauge for big game hunting, but that may be due to the diminishing returns on black powder, and probably how much an experienced shooter can handle the recoil.

Shooting a large snub round towards a charging rhino may be be more viable, little recoil, and the rhino isn't trying to evade the slow moving round.

 

[wbnc]

The largest calibre appears to be the four gauge for big game hunting, but that may be due to the diminishing returns on black powder, and probably how much an experienced shooter can handle the recoil.

Shooting a large snub round towards a charging rhino may be be more viable, little recoil, and the rhino isn't trying to evade the slow moving round.

Alright, so I think the directional airburst round would be the go to for a "standard/ball" lethal round.

a small proximity fuse in the tip to detonate it at a proper distance to ensure a consistent spread, with an option of detonating just out of burst radius away from the shooter for up close combat. so give it five or seven meter dead zone inside that the round won't trigger. of course inside five meters you just point and click and use a 25mm round moving at 160-200 MPS to deliver one heck of a gut punch.

To build up initial velocity in the tube you place a small charge at the base of the round which gets it moving...the mass of the weapon itself should absorb most of the recoil, if not the recoil impulse wouldn't be enough to overcome the mass of the shooter and the gun in a Zero gee situation. Inertia being your friend in this case.

 

[steve98052]

Another interesting weapon I found in a Traveller book is a submachinegun built for Snub Pistol ammunition. Submachineguns in general vary widely in look, so you can use your imagination. It's about as long as a "standard" Traveller submachinegun, but much less accurate (not that submachineguns are all that accurate to begin with) and only two-thirds the range (which seems high to me), but only 1.2 kg, lighter than some handguns.

The magazine holds 32 shots, so it could be a 32-cm stick (silly), 16-cm double stick, 11-cm triple stick, 8×4 cm box, or 7-cm drum. In each case I'd assume the magazine is 6 or 7 cm front to back, because a 7-gram cylinder of high explosive is about 56 mm long without rounding the nose or allowing for fins. I initially thought a shaped charge round would be even longer to allow for the nose cone, but the penetrator lining is dense, so it uses up some of the mass quota.

Anyway, if you want to suppress a riot, load one of those with sleep gas and hose down the mob -- as long as they're not wearing breathing gear.

 

[wbnc]

Another interesting weapon I found in a Traveller book is a submachinegun built for Snub Pistol ammunition. Submachineguns in general vary widely in look, so you can use your imagination. It's about as long as a "standard" Traveller submachinegun, but much less accurate (not that submachineguns are all that accurate to begin with) and only two-thirds the range (which seems high to me), but only 1.2 kg, lighter than some handguns.

The magazine holds 32 shots, so it could be a 32-cm stick (silly), 16-cm double stick, 11-cm triple stick, 8×4 cm box, or 7-cm drum. In each case I'd assume the magazine is 6 or 7 cm front to back, because a 7-gram cylinder of high explosive is about 56 mm long without rounding the nose or allowing for fins. I initially thought a shaped charge round would be even longer to allow for the nose cone, but the penetrator lining is dense, so it uses up some of the mass quota.

Anyway, if you want to suppress a riot, load one of those with sleep gas and hose down the mob -- as long as they're not wearing breathing gear.

I'd go with the drum magazine. it would give it a better center of gravity and easier to handle.

mix in flashbangs and rubber baton rounds for the clever ones...

 

[Condottiere]

Submachine gun performance tends to be based on a nine millimetre parabellum, unless it's a forty five or some other calibre.

Plus you have an extended barrel, usually complements a four hundred metre muzzle velocity, which is three or four times greater than a snub one.