Armageddon Challenge

[Wing Commander]

Ok folks, there appear to be a lot of threads discussing the pro's & cons of the Armageddon vessels and whether they are worthwhile taking or not. So, why don't we starting testing them out and put the results on this thread! If we play with 5pts War level games and 1 side only takes an Armageddon level ship then post the results on this thread, concentrating more on the damage inflicted on / by the Armageddon vessel.
My findings were that the Victory took a serious pasting but due mainly to my bad luck didn't dish out a great deal, however the impact on the battle was that the Minbari line kept pumelling the Victory which left the rest of the fleet relatively free to focus their attacks elsewhere.
Looking at the other Armageddon ships they may not be quite as tough as the Victory (no adaptive armor) but look like they've got spades more firepower, will this make a difference? Lets play a few games and find out.
Phil & I will play a game vs the Brakiri later in the week and he can take the boombox, I'll take an ISA 5 pts War with no Victory. We'll then reverse and I'll take the Victory fleet whilst he uses a fleet with no boombox. This should give us a fair idea of just how tough those ships are.
If a few of us repeat this experiment then (player skill to one side) we should have a fair idea of whether the big boys are worthwhile fielding.

 

[H]

I played a game several weeks back
Minbari, versus Narn and ISA. we used 4 armageddon points (so 2 each for the narn and ISA

the neroon dies hideously, admitedly the combined e-mines from a kabintak and 2 g'vrahns mauled it, but then they also mauled the sharlins!
the Victory got knocked all over the place, but survived, alas, the kabintak didn't get shot. however
in the replay. (ISA were replaced by Abbai) the kabintak spent 4 rounds with 2 sharlins shooting it, yes 2 sharlins, 16 dice of beam per round, for 4 rounds. before finally expiring. throughout it all, it continued to destroy other ships, on it is worth noting BEFORE this it was given a -4 speed crit (and due to a no engineering hit couldn't repair it). I would say any ship capeable of standing up to 2 Sharlins (and also to start with 2 battleships, names i forget) for 4 rounds killing the two battleships, and mauling two sharlins, is one tough ship, more so when you consider it's main beam was out of action due to imobility. one more e-mine shot would probably have cripled, if not destroyed both sharlins.

 

[Locutus9956]

If you want to do it fairly, then it should be 1 armageddon point match or at most 5 point BATTLE. 5 point war is pretty obviously going to eat an armageddon ship before it can really prove its worth!

 

[Burger]

Why not fight at 1 point Armageddon?

1 Neroon vs. 36 Tethys :lol:

 

[katadder]

nah take 1 Adira or drakh mothership versus 36 tethys then the armageddon ships should win (especially as the mothership can carry a war ship and 4 other hangars to use).

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

I disagree whole heartedly. Under the previous rules me and my brother played a 5 point Armageddon level battle between the Narn and the Centauri as a sort of last hoorah. It was a planetary assault and took almost half a day from set-up point to finish; ending in a draw as I had run out of troops. Each side had one Armageddon level ship, me with the Adira and him with the Ka'Bin'Tak. On turn nine I brought in my reserves; I'd been advancing slowly and he'd tried to hang banck incase I swung in a load of jump points to overwhelm his platary defences, including my Adira.
The Adira dropped in on the starboard bow of his Ka'Bin'Tak (cue music, there's Centauri on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow, there's centauri on the starboard bow, starboard bow sir). Until this point his Ka'Bin'Tak had been relatively unmolested, though had taken a few points here and there. My Adira then proceeded to dispatch with the Ka'Bin'Tak over this and the next two turns, its amazing beam weaponry rending the huge Narn ship in to tiny pieces thanks to its triple damage, precise (and the ability to apparently roll higher than average frequently coupled with some spectacular critical hits; my first volley halved its damage). Though the Ka'Bin'Tak fell to the Adira quite quickly it had already dealt a serious blow to the rest of my fleet and would have done better if I hadn't 'mag-proofed' all my ships (nothing much higher than a 2 when rolling for his advanced mag gun). The Adira meanwhile survived right until the end point of the game, though admitidly couldn't do anything sice it was at zero speed, no front arc firing, no special actions and a no damage control vital system hit. However without the Adira the game would have surely gone to my brother and the Narn would have saved their planet. The combination of a Ka'Bin'Tak and two G'Vrahns is a powerful one that's not to be taken lightly. So yes the bigger ships can most definitely be worth while, but it does depened on using the right tool for the right job and how you play your game.

 

[Shadow Queen]

depends on what loadout the 36 tethys' have

 

[Locutus9956]

36 missile tethys of course! Intercept that Mr. Victory! :twisted:

 

[Wing Commander]

Hmm... we may have to try that one just for giggles! Could I resist pressing the big button I wonder?

 

[Shadow Queen]

why not 50% Missiles and 50% Laser

 

[Wing Commander]

Tell you what, we'll play this 1 tomorrow and file a Battle report, I may have to proxy 1 or 2 of the Tethys though.... (well, about 30 or so actually!). We'll go with 24 Missile boats and 12 laser boats to keep it interesting and see how long the Victory lasts / whether she takes them all down.

 

[Shadow Queen]

since the Laser's are beam weapons no intercepter die for the Victory :twisted: :lol:

 

[Burger]

Looking forward to that battle report :lol:

 

[Davesaint]

You actually should go for the Beam armed Tethys. The missle armed Tethys are only AP on their missles, so you only hit on 5's. The Beam armed Tethys Hit on 4's in 2nd Ed, and will continue to hit on 4's. Plus the Beam is Double Damage. That's 72 Glorious AD of DD beam, with an average of 36 hits every other turn for an average of 66/60 with 6 crits before adaptive. Now the Victory should kill about 4-6 Tethys per turn depending on what the initial criticals are. I would also run the Tethys in Squadrons of 4 to maximise firepower. Of course a Vital Crit to the Turreted arc of the Vicky would make this battle truely amusing.


Dave

 

[katadder]

I disagree whole heartedly. Under the previous rules me and my brother played a 5 point Armageddon level battle between the Narn and the Centauri as a sort of last hoorah. It was a planetary assault and took almost half a day from set-up point to finish; ending in a draw as I had run out of troops. Each side had one Armageddon level ship, me with the Adira and him with the Ka'Bin'Tak. On turn nine I brought in my reserves; I'd been advancing slowly and he'd tried to hang banck incase I swung in a load of jump points to overwhelm his platary defences, including my Adira.
The Adira dropped in on the starboard bow of his Ka'Bin'Tak (cue music, there's Centauri on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow, there's centauri on the starboard bow, starboard bow sir). Until this point his Ka'Bin'Tak had been relatively unmolested, though had taken a few points here and there. My Adira then proceeded to dispatch with the Ka'Bin'Tak over this and the next two turns, its amazing beam weaponry rending the huge Narn ship in to tiny pieces thanks to its triple damage, precise (and the ability to apparently roll higher than average frequently coupled with some spectacular critical hits; my first volley halved its damage). Though the Ka'Bin'Tak fell to the Adira quite quickly it had already dealt a serious blow to the rest of my fleet and would have done better if I hadn't 'mag-proofed' all my ships (nothing much higher than a 2 when rolling for his advanced mag gun). The Adira meanwhile survived right until the end point of the game, though admitidly couldn't do anything sice it was at zero speed, no front arc firing, no special actions and a no damage control vital system hit. However without the Adira the game would have surely gone to my brother and the Narn would have saved their planet. The combination of a Ka'Bin'Tak and two G'Vrahns is a powerful one that's not to be taken lightly. So yes the bigger ships can most definitely be worth while, but it does depened on using the right tool for the right job and how you play your game.

the adiras beam isnt triple damage, its a drakh beam basically. the liati in 1e had a TD beam but now thats back down to DD.

 

[angelus2000]

the GEG saves the Adira. Unless you have a big honking gun to shoot at, the GEG works wonders in stopping low AD weapons. Pair it with a maximus or 2, and the thing will last forever against Raid and below ships, Beams are pratically the only worry.

 

[Smegish]

I've had a few games with one armageddon ship vs my Adira, and so far it's killed a Victory, Ka'Bin'Tak and a Nemesis, and only the Victory took it under half its starting damage. In the campaign I'm in my adira is hunting down an Abbai Brivoki, hoping to add it to its list of kills.

But yeah, GEG 3 with Hull 6 makes it a pain in the arse to hurt, and with the upgrade of the TL guns to have DD as well without reducing the AD, it can really dish out the hurt. Anything within 12" that isn't hull 6 is in a world of pain, even if he isn't in the Fore arc.