Announcing: Flynn's Guide To Alien Creation...

[Flynn]

And really, when it comes to playability and having fun, does it really matter to them and their gaming group if their idea conforms with someone else's view of what extraterrestrial life should be like, be it science or science fiction? To be honest, no it doesn't. What makes a race "Acceptable" for a given campaign is whether the Referee likes it or not.

At least, that was my opinion on the matter. It's perfectly okay to feel that everything must be scientifically accurate, but I would suggest that such may not be fun or playable to others, and so there's bound to be different opinions on the matter.

In regards to your suggestions about a section discussing non-standard world types, I like it and wish I'd thought of it.

Thanks,
Flynn

 

[Dave Chase]

...
In regards to your suggestions about a section discussing non-standard world types, I like it and wish I'd thought of it.

Thanks,
Flynn

I hear a supplement or part two coming. Yeah.

:lol:

Dave Chase

 

[EDG]

And really, when it comes to playability and having fun, does it really matter to them and their gaming group if their idea conforms with someone else's view of what extraterrestrial life should be like, be it science or science fiction? To be honest, no it doesn't. What makes a race "Acceptable" for a given campaign is whether the Referee likes it or not.

At least, that was my opinion on the matter. It's perfectly okay to feel that everything must be scientifically accurate, but I would suggest that such may not be fun or playable to others, and so there's bound to be different opinions on the matter.

I realise the intent was to make it all as open-ended as possible, but in practical terms that approach only works for the people who don't care about realism (because it's not an issue for them) - the people who do care about realism are left high and dry though.

Don't get me wrong, I get your logic here... but if your reader is someone who does like things to be realistic, you haven't really given him any advice on how to make it so.

 

[Flynn]

I realise the intent was to make it all as open-ended as possible, but in practical terms that approach only works for the people who don't care about realism (because it's not an issue for them) - the people who do care about realism are left high and dry though.

Don't get me wrong, I get your logic here... but if your reader is someone who does like things to be realistic, you haven't really given him any advice on how to make it so.

Sorry, EDG, if you didn't like the Guide. I learned a long time ago that I can't please everyone, and I'm sorry I couldn't help you, though I tried. I appreciate you talking about the book, though, and I hope you find what you're looking for somewhere else. If not, please consider using the Open Game Content from the Guide to publish something that does meet your needs. I'd buy it, particularly in return for your kindness in picking up this book.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[BP]

...doubt that there is any way for a sentient race to evolve in a vacuum environment...

What about energy beings and non-organic (crystalline) - and evolution primarily via radiation (as there is no protective atmo)...

Definitely 'outside the box' on these though...

 

[towerwarlock]

You mentioned somewhere in another post that you did a T20 version of this. Where would someone be able to find that if they wanted to use this for the t20 system?

 

[rust]

Don't get me wrong, I get your logic here... but if your reader is someone who does like things to be realistic, you haven't really given him any advice on how to make it so.

I see your point, but on the other hand extraterrestrial biology is still a
rather speculative "science without a subject", and any kind of "realism"
could hardly be more than an educated guess.

Even here on earth the biologists still have to change their opinion on
what is possible quite often. For example, for most of them the discove-
ry of deep sea life that obtains its energy through chemosynthesis at the
"black smokers" was a complete surprise, which changed a paradigm of
biology.

I think to give a "realistic" idea what, for example, alien silicon based life
or sulfur based life might be able to do or not to do is almost impossible,
and in the end it is left to the GM designing his setting and its creatures
to decide what he considers plausible.

If he wants a high degree of what we would currently consider as realis-
tic, he will have to do some research and choose those of the often con-
flicting theories that appeal to him, but in my view this is beyond the sco-
pe of a Traveller supplement.

 

[Flynn]

You mentioned somewhere in another post that you did a T20 version of this. Where would someone be able to find that if they wanted to use this for the t20 system?

I never released that article, and since I do not have permission from Hunter to release a Traveller T20 product (I don't even know if he still can), I doubt I'll be doing so any time soon.

However, I may release a version of this for the D20 Modern System Reference Document (i.e. D20 gamers that enjoy Future/sci-fi games), and it would be easily convertible.

Sorry, but I don't want to cut into whatever small profit margin I might get from this product by releasing the T20 version so soon after I've put this one out. Please ask me again in about six months.

I hope you understand.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[towerwarlock]

That is ok I understand. Payday is this week so I plan to pick this one up later this week. As for getting permision from Hunter, well good luck. No one seems able to reach him lately about alot of things.

 

[EDG]

Sorry, EDG, if you didn't like the Guide. I learned a long time ago that I can't please everyone, and I'm sorry I couldn't help you, though I tried.

Sigh.

I didn't say that I didn't like the guide. I'm trying to give you some constructive criticism here, to make this sort of thing more useful to everybody instead of just that subgroup of people who don't feel they need assistance in figuring out what would make sense.

And I must disagree with rust. I think that doing some research and presenting existing theories is exactly what should be in this sort of Traveller supplement. This applies whether it's a guide for generating alien lifeforms, ecosystems, planets, or star systems - I think the author of such a work should definitely be doing some research - even if it's pure conjecture - to allow the user of the work to apply his results much more effectively. That makes the work so much more useful than just a bunch of tables to randomly generate something - it turns it into a tool that allows the user to understand the consequences of what he's doing and to flesh out his creation so much more.

If the creator doesn't care about or chooses to ignore such information, then obviously he can. But having that dicussion there means that people who don't want to ignore it can get even more use out of the product.

Again, I'm not criticising the contents of the guide itself here (though I haven't tried to make a race with it yet). I just would have preferred it to have more depth.

 

[rust]

And I must disagree with rust. I think that doing some research and presenting existing theories is exactly what should be in this sort of Traveller supplement. This applies whether it's a guide for generating alien lifeforms, ecosystems, planets, or star systems ...

I would immediately agree with you concerning planets (lots of data
and universal physics) or star systems (many data and universal phy-
sics), perhaps even the basic structures of ecosystems (concepts like,
for example, food chains may well be universal).

However, I would still find it very difficult to compare this with extrater-
restrial biology, where we have no data at all, and any research could
only give an overview of theories that are hardly more than science ba-
sed fiction - and there is no remotely reliable way to decide which of tho-
se many theories are realistic.

In the end the author of the supplement could only provide a personal
opinion based on those other opinions he considered helpful, and in my
view this would be pure speculation, far beyond science and realism.
It might well be a very interesting read, but I do not see how it could
help to make a setting more realistic.

 

[EDG]

However, I would still find it very difficult to compare this with extraterrestrial biology, where we have no data at all, and any research could only give an overview of theories that are hardly more than science based fiction - and there is no remotely reliable way to decide which of those many theories are realistic.

I think you're underestimating what we know of biology. Sure, there's always a chance that something will come along that we never expected... but if we're talking about naturally evolving sentient life here then it's most likely going to be carbon-based like us, and most likely evolved in an oxygen-rich environment. Hydrothermal and subterranean life cannot generate the energy requirements that complex life needs - there simply isn't enough energy available at hydrothermal vents or deep underground to get beyond the microbial stage (macroscopic life at hydrothermal vents are in a symbiotic relationship with H2S processing microbes in their guts to generate the energy they need to survive).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothetical_types_of_biochemistry has a lot of useful information about why natural silicon life is unlikely (the silicon molecules would be too stable - essentially, you end up with crystalline lattices, identical to those found in rocks). That page does propose some other interesting alternatives that require very exotic environments to survive though... but they'd probably be beyond the scope of a supplement like Flynn's.

One obvious way that silicon-based life could exist is as a creation of carbon-based life. If we were to create self-replicating, fully sapient AIs, and then we died out somehow, then our creations could (and probably should) be considered as "silicon based life", and it could exist in a bewildering number of engineered forms that it could upload itself into. But I think that naturally evolving "walking silicon chips" like the ones on Cymbeline in the OTU that Virus was based on in TNE would be highly unlikely.

This is the sort of discussion that would have been nice to have in the book - just something to give the reader a heads-up on the possibilities and limitations involved.

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Ok "Flynn" I just bought a copy of your book, can't wait to get it in my hands to add to my ever growing Library of gaming stuff.

Now I will cross my arms and hold my breath awaiting your Robot book next....LOL!!!

Penn

 

[captainjack23]

In the end the author of the supplement could only provide a personal
opinion based on those other opinions he considered helpful, and in my
view this would be pure speculation, far beyond science and realism.
It might well be a very interesting read, but I do not see how it could
help to make a setting more realistic.

The Author does state his intentions and design goal, and the subsequent limits, which is, for me, far more useful for me as a GM.

In general, I find most RPG explanatory text to be little more enlightening than a trip to the Wiki, or vastly uneccessary. And given that page count increase = revenue decrease in many small press cases, I can see why either rewriting a wiki article or taking a graduate class in the subject would seem less than neccessary for such a suppliment.

I suspect that the readers who would appreciate depth would either find it elsewhere, anyway, or already be experts and skip the 1A synopsis of the subject. Plus, I almost never rely on an RPG text to educate me IRL...but thats me, and I remember the masive to-hit tables that forgot to include the spleen..

And without a spleen to produce bile, what would one do on the internet ? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


That said, I quite enjoy, and recommend the suppliment: regardless of what one thinks of traveller PlanGen, its a very elegant system that produces aliens that reflect the differences in their worlds in more than just minor ways (In other words NOT: (roll) A humanoid with a bumpy head; (roll) a humanoid with gills and a bumpy head; (roll) a humanoid with big lungs and a bumpy head; a humanoid with a bumpy head that can fly ; a humanoid with two bumpy heads)


Compressed and/or pithy version of the above post available upon request.

 

[rust]

... its a very elegant system that produces aliens that reflect the differences in their worlds in more than just minor ways ...

Indeed, and I especially like that it is very easy to tweak the basically ran-
dom results in the directions that I want for my setting.

 

[captainjack23]

... its a very elegant system that produces aliens that reflect the differences in their worlds in more than just minor ways ...

Indeed, and I especially like that it is very easy to tweak the basically ran-
dom results in the directions that I want for my setting.

And, I forgot to mention, it does it for all the world types that traveller spans; one can always assign a zero probability to those worlds one feels are unlikely prospects, but the options are there for those who prefer it otherwise. Nice !

 

[EDG]

And, I forgot to mention, it does it for all the world types that traveller spans; one can always assign a zero probability to those worlds one feels are unlikely prospects, but the options are there for those who prefer it otherwise. Nice !

Problem is, there's no guidance for assigning any probabilities of life to those non-Garden worlds. How would having a Very Thin atmosphere, or an Insidious atmosphere, or being a Vacuum world affect those probabilities? IMO they would affect it quite a lot, and the author's own opinion seems to indicate that he thinks that sentient life arises on less than 2% of all Garden worlds.

 

[EDG]

Another thing I find a bit irksome is that if the world hydrographics is A, the creature is automatically assumed to be Aquatic and a Natural Swimmer, and maybe Amphibious.

On the surface this may look sensible, but let's think about it for a sec. Hydrographics A means that the world has 96-100% water coverage, not 100% water coverage. On an Earth-sized world, that means that up to 4% of the surface can be land - that corresponds to an area about the size of North America or Europe (the entire contient of Africa is only 6% of the surface area of the Earth).

As such there could be plenty of land area for a completely land-based lifeform to arise, even on a water world. It all depends on the arrangement of land on the surface of course - it could be all island arcs, or it could be a single large continent, or it could be anything else in between. But the point is that it wouldn't necessarily be aquatic at all.

 

[Bygoneyrs]

As with any resource use what fits in your own mind and disregard the rest.

Penn

 

[captainjack23]

And, I forgot to mention, it does it for all the world types that traveller spans; one can always assign a zero probability to those worlds one feels are unlikely prospects, but the options are there for those who prefer it otherwise. Nice !

Problem is, there's no guidance for assigning any probabilities of life to those non-Garden worlds. How would having a Very Thin atmosphere, or an Insidious atmosphere, or being a Vacuum world affect those probabilities? IMO they would affect it quite a lot, and the author's own opinion seems to indicate that he thinks that sentient life arises on less than 2% of all Garden worlds.

And here would be the opportunity for you to jump on the Traveller OGL train, and produce your own -in fact, since I know you're hesitent about losing copyright of your works (and seeing them incorporated by just anyone), you could easily skip the OGL and simply put together a series of generic "guides to space" to address theise very issues -and they could be available to those who want to incoropate higher levels of what you see as realism...in all seriousness, your JTAS articles on Brown dwarves was an excellent info piece written for laymen gamers -and I'm not being sarcastic, either. We need more of that, not less, and not buried in a thread in a forum.

There are quite a few such guides availabe for Pulp and fantasy, dealing with realistic worlds and world systems (such as economics, not astronomy), and they seem to do well. If there are any comparable ones for SF, I haven't seen 'em.

Alternately, S&P would be a good venue, also. Possibly a regtular column: "the view from Ganymede" (I release all rights to that pathetic attempt, if it matters... )

Its just not clear to me that corresponding with the authors about what they should have included in already published works, or how they should have written it, even, is the best way to address your concerns, and this is said in all seriousness.