Altered Carbon, Broken Angels and Woken Furies by Richard Morgan are another favorite of mine that I would like to see as an RPG setting. Those books are also set to a far future where space travel is a bit laborous but it is in fact possible to send a person (or a personality) instantly to another solar system where he can be re-sleeved (downloaded to another body). In that setting the most peculiar aspect is the sleeves that grant in effect immortality to any and all. That is in theory. The person's memories are saved to a "stack" that is installed to his skull or neck and after death he can be brought back to life unless he suffers a "true death" due to destruction of the said stack. Obviously not everyone is returned to life (since it is rather expensive) and they are just put to a matrix to continue their lives in virtual reality.
Altered Carbon
- Thread starter SnowDog
- Start date
Allen Varney
Mongoose
And, of course, you can already do that in PARANOIA.
Maybe I just lack imagination or something but in Paranoia you have 6 clones that are supposed the get wasted in no time at all. In Altered Carbon etc. when your body's gone it's gone and the clone is not waiting for you in most cases.
Yes, I understand that it was a jest but I thought it still merited a response...
Yes, I understand that it was a jest but I thought it still merited a response...
Allen Varney
Mongoose
Of course in PARANOIA the cloning system is intentionally, aggressively free from scientific accuracy. We revel in its stupidity. So the comparison to Morgan's books was a joke, and I guess it would lack class to pursue the parallel.
--But (dispensing with class here) the cloning system in the Mongoose PARANOIA edition, as written, does in fact describe a "MemoMax" system of recording the "Prime" character's personality and memories, growing clone backups in tanks, and then downloading the Prime's recorded personality into these bodies. The implications for immortality are an explicit plot point in the mission "The Sweep of Unhistory," in Gareth Hanrahan's Alpha Complex Nights. The use of older tape backups to revise memories is a central point in one of the missions in WMD. We've even flirted with the notion of multiple copies of the same person existing simultaneously. So in a way the PARANOIA clone system is indeed interesting and relevant to this context. It's just, you know, the wrong tone.
Still, I can see how invoking PARANOIA derails the topic somewhat, and I apologize.
--But (dispensing with class here) the cloning system in the Mongoose PARANOIA edition, as written, does in fact describe a "MemoMax" system of recording the "Prime" character's personality and memories, growing clone backups in tanks, and then downloading the Prime's recorded personality into these bodies. The implications for immortality are an explicit plot point in the mission "The Sweep of Unhistory," in Gareth Hanrahan's Alpha Complex Nights. The use of older tape backups to revise memories is a central point in one of the missions in WMD. We've even flirted with the notion of multiple copies of the same person existing simultaneously. So in a way the PARANOIA clone system is indeed interesting and relevant to this context. It's just, you know, the wrong tone.
Still, I can see how invoking PARANOIA derails the topic somewhat, and I apologize.
Well, maybe I just took the suggestion a bit wrong so there is no need for an apology. I have only played the original version of Paranoia and the tone of game was probably what made me reject the idea immediately (as I should not have done).
For me Altered Carbon etc. is a wild ride of high tech at best and the back-ups are just a part of the package not the driving force why I am interested in seeing the world come alive as a game setting.
Anyway, thanks for further explanation.
For me Altered Carbon etc. is a wild ride of high tech at best and the back-ups are just a part of the package not the driving force why I am interested in seeing the world come alive as a game setting.
Anyway, thanks for further explanation.
Of course, in Paranoia your clones are clones of YOU. In Morgans books the sleeve that you are downloaded into isn't biologically related to you at all - hence the disassociation felt after a sleeving when you look into the mirror for the first time and see a stranger staring back, and the possibility of custom sleeves for certain jobs.
G.
G.
Good point GJD! When someone is sent to "prison" he is actually uploaded to a virtual world and someone else get's his physical body. When the former convict is released he will probably get a totally different body (or sleeve as they are called) whatever is available.
Yes, there are artificial sleeves but to me the info about them is a bit sketchy. Some of them are abominations that are less capable than normal human bodies and other are really superb. Still others might have special abilities that are really outlandish to human bodies.
Yes, there are artificial sleeves but to me the info about them is a bit sketchy. Some of them are abominations that are less capable than normal human bodies and other are really superb. Still others might have special abilities that are really outlandish to human bodies.
Gist_Engine
Mongoose
I think the sleeve idea would be fun to try out in an RPG, but deciding which attributes are the sleeve's and which the personality's would be annoying. Not to mention the fact that a mind is not a different material (and thus transferable) anyway, which seems like a rather out-dated sci-fi to me.
It might be fun to attach parts of attributes/abilities to the "mind" and part to the "sleeve" but how often would you expect characters to tranfer? It seems hard to make a game that would have that as a recurring event... once a session... whenever the situation dictates... etc
It might be fun to attach parts of attributes/abilities to the "mind" and part to the "sleeve" but how often would you expect characters to tranfer? It seems hard to make a game that would have that as a recurring event... once a session... whenever the situation dictates... etc
Gist_Engine,
Have you read Takeshi Kovacs books? I am afraid that I might have missed some nuances and am not the best person to describe how the mind transfer works in those books (as English is not my native language). Still, I will try
The books assume that a brain is just a very complicated piece of computer hardware and mind (or soul?) is just sort of program that you download to more conventional piece of hardware (called stack). So when you change sleeves you upload the personality and memories from the stack.
I don't know how outdated this concept is but it works for me.
If the books are any indication it is not a trivial thing to change sleeves for most people. First of all there it is quite expensive secondly it is quite stressful (ref. to GJD). Therefore you change sleeves when your current sleeve buys the farm (but you don't suffer the real death). Another case is when you want some heavy duty upgrade (so it would be a bit like going full 'borg).
Anyway the setting is rich enough but the sleeve thing is just easiest to describe and one that probably jumps to your face most immediately.
Have you read Takeshi Kovacs books? I am afraid that I might have missed some nuances and am not the best person to describe how the mind transfer works in those books (as English is not my native language). Still, I will try
The books assume that a brain is just a very complicated piece of computer hardware and mind (or soul?) is just sort of program that you download to more conventional piece of hardware (called stack). So when you change sleeves you upload the personality and memories from the stack.
I don't know how outdated this concept is but it works for me.
If the books are any indication it is not a trivial thing to change sleeves for most people. First of all there it is quite expensive secondly it is quite stressful (ref. to GJD). Therefore you change sleeves when your current sleeve buys the farm (but you don't suffer the real death). Another case is when you want some heavy duty upgrade (so it would be a bit like going full 'borg).
Anyway the setting is rich enough but the sleeve thing is just easiest to describe and one that probably jumps to your face most immediately.
Gist_Engine
Mongoose
Yeah, I figured it worked something like that, but after researching Artificial Intelligence for the last couple years I just can't buy into the "mind is a computer program" thing. Don't get me wrong- I LOVE Ghost in the Shell and similar narratives that try to show the artificiality of the human being, but models of "brain=hardware and mind=software" just don't seem to represent how the brain actually works.
Then again, it is science fiction, so we should let them do whatever they want. I would maybe prefer a "messy" transfer that left you a different person after the process.
Then again, it is science fiction, so we should let them do whatever they want. I would maybe prefer a "messy" transfer that left you a different person after the process.
