Ages of Earth

[Utgardloki]

In working out details of a supernatural-themed Earth-based setting, I'd like to apply ideas of "First Age", "Second Age", "Third Age" etc that are common in other settings. But looking at the Earth, it is not clear what these ages would be. Which age are we now living in? And what were the previous ages?

If you believe that 1967 song, we are now in the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. However, it is extremely difficult to pin down when the Age of Aquarius really starts, or how many such ages there were before. Also, prior ages do not have such clear-cut markers either: the Age of Pisces would basically be the Christian age, except that it started about 150 years before Christ was born. The Age of Aries and Age of Taurus would be in ancient times, but when was the first such age?

You can read one construction of this system on wikipedia here.

Based partially on this article, I've worked out a system in which the first age was the Age of Sagittarius, beginning about 19,500 BCE, when arrows were invented and wild emmer grass appears. The 12th age is therefore the Age of Capricorn, extending approximately 4170 to 6320 CE.

Before the Age of Sagittarius I've named the Precessions going back to about 97,000 BCE as the Bamlambo Precession (97,000 to 71,000 BCE), Lilith's Precession (71,000 BCE to 45,000 BCE), Adam's Precession (45,000 BCE to 19,500 BCE) and Noah's Precession (19,500 BCE to 6000 CE).

This of course totally ignores prehuman ages that existed millions of years ago, but the geologists have that defined.

Another way of looking at ages is what events have occured that might define an event: the rise of industrialism, the ministries of Jesus and Bhudda, the invention of history, Noah's Flood, the creation of Adam and Eve, the sinking of Atlantis, the destruction of lost continents such as Lemuria and Mu. Since most of these are either mythical or a matter of interpretation (e.g. why is Jesus so important and not Mohammed? -- well, I have a reason for that but that is for another thread for discussing Earth's pantheon), it's difficult to use these as a basis for defining the ages of the Earth.

The ages I have so far are the following:

(One precession is 25,872 years. A cusp is 84 years before and after an age.)

Bamlambo Precession (97,116 BCE - 71, 292 BCE
Precession Before Last (71,292 BCE - 45,420 BCE)
(Lilith’s Precession)
Previous Precession (45,420 BCE - 19,548 BCE)
(Adam’s Precession)
Current Precession (19,548 BCE - 6324 CE)
(Noah’s Precession)
Age of Sagittarius (19,548 BCE - 17,392 BCE
Arrows are invented.
The grass mutation wild emmer appears
Age of Scorpio (17,392 BCE - 15,236 BCE)
Age of Libra (15,236 BCE - 13,080 BCE)
The dog is domesticated.
Age of Virgo (13,080 BCE - 10,924 BCE)
Age of Leo (10,924 BCE - 8768 BCE)
Stone oil lamps are invented.
The Great Sphinx is carved.
Age of Cancer (8768 BCE - 6612 BCE
Noah
Age of Gemini (6612 BCE - 4456 BCE)
Age of Taurus (4456 BCE - 2300 BCE)
Age of Aries (2300 BCE - 144 BCE)
Abraham is given a ram to sacrifice to Aten.
Age of Pisces (144 BCE - 2012 CE)
Christian age.
Age of Aquarius (2012 CE - 4168 CE)
“New Age”
Age of Capricorn (4168 CE - 6324 CE)

Notes: The Bamlambo is a semi-aquatic race I am developing -- the name comes from Bantu mythology. Also, while I am using a value of 25,872 for the length of a precession, that is just an average value as no two precessions actually have the same length.

 

[Osentalka]

Not to have fixed dates on when the old age ended and the new one stated is okay.
Glorantha for example:
The end of second age/beginning of third age is known as the year Seshnela sunk (1049), or the year the dragons devoured the Golden Horde (1120).
It depends only on the local big thing that happened.

If you really want to go THAT far as you did you would cover also Gloranthas mythic ages. If you want to stay in history (well known history...) my idea would be like this:

5000 BC to 600 BC Egyptian age
600 BC to 600 AD Greek/Roman age
600 AD to 1500 AD Middle ages
1500 AD to 1900 AD Pre modern age
1900 AD to ... NOW

The ages get shorter and shorter.

 

[Utgardloki]

I think a system of ages within ages are called for.

For example, the Age of Pisces can be divided in the following periods:

Rise and Fall of Rome: 144 BCE to 450 CE
Middle Ages: 450 CE to 1450 CE
Renaissance/Reformation: 1450 CE to 1700 CE
Industrial Age: 1700 CE to 1945 CE
Atomic Age: 1945 CE to 2010 CE

The Age of Pisces (144 BCE to 2012 CE) would be the 10th Age of the Noahian Precession, lasting approximately 19,500 BCE to 6320 CE. This would be the first Precession of the Eurasian Epoch. The Atlantean Epoch (circa 70,000 BCE to 11,000 BCE) would include Lilith's Precession (71,000 BCE to 45,000 BCE), Adam's Precession (45,000 BCE to 19,500 BCE) and half of Noah's Precesion. The Muvian Epoch would preceed the Altantean Epoch, but I have not placed a starting date on this epoch yet.

I think the epoch's, Muvian, Atlantean and Eurasian, are what I am really looking for. The names would refer to the location of the dominant civilizations, Mu until about 70,000 BCE, Atlantis between 70,000 BCE to 11,000 BCE, and Eurasia from 11,000 BCE to present.

The astrological ages are kind of like calendar dates, like saying something is "19th Century" vs saying something is "Victorian Era" -- the two roughly coincide, but not exactly. Similarly, the Age of Pisces roughly coincides with the "Christian-Bhuddist" era, even though Bhudda came before and Christ came after the literal beginning of the age.

Another thought is that "Lilith's Precession" would be an age of dragons, when the gods Aten and Asherah wage an epic war against Tiamat and Leviathan. Perhaps this war could have started with the destruction of Mu in 70,000 BCE, and lasted about 25,000 years.

 

[Utgardloki]

The problem I am having with postulating prehistoric civilizations at Atlantis and Mu is hiding the evidence. Geologists say that we are now living in the Anthropocene Epoch, because of all the stuff the human race is leaving around. If there was a civilization that lasted for 40,000 years before guys in France started painting pictures of horses on their cave walls, why don't we see more evidence?

I'm working on that problem.

 

[Mage]

How about it was all biotechnology that got wiped out in some epidemic: all technology, armour, weapons, medicine, art, paper, records, all done via organisms semi parasitics, and maybe the change nin climate wiped them out with the ice and whatnot.

Think vorlon ships from babylon 5.

 

[Osentalka]

As i understand it you would like to include all the fantasy elements, like Atlantis, Mu, Lemuria, Lilith, Adam & Eve etc.

May i suggeset that you have a look at the NEPHILIM RPG from Chaosium Inc.
Its an occult RPG, but based upon history and mythic past.
It is set in the here and now, but each character had various pastlives before.

By the way: NEPHILIM is a Basic Role Playing game, and so its ruleswise full compatible will RQ.

Cheers

Osentalka

 

[Utgardloki]

I like the idea of traces of Atlantis and Mu being wiped away because it was not based on mass-produced artificial artifacts the way our current civilization is. That's a very good idea.

On the other hand, I don't want ALL traces of Atlantis and Mu to be wiped away, because what is the fun of that. So I have started listing things that could be considered remnants of these lost civilizations to either be discovered by modern characters, or be worked into the storyline of any campaigns set in those eras:

Some of this might get me laughed out of any respectible archeologist's office, but this is a fantasy setting, not a serious archeological proposal.

Traces of Atlantis

Longhouses in precolumbian New England and Scandinavia -- traces of Atlantean tradition?

Witch-Queen of Iceland. Irish myth talks about witch-amazons who taught their great heroes how to fight. Perhaps this could be a memory of witch-queens from Atlantis who set up a kingdom in the north atlantic after being forced out of their homeland.

Amazons of Brazil. Perhaps they also fled atlantis. They may also have left seeds for the Inca and Olmec civilizations.

Sphinx of Egypt. This could have been built at the end of Atlantean hegemony.

Holy grail. There is contemplation that the Holy Grail was originally not the cup that Jesus Christ drank from, but an ancient celtic relic. It could have come from Atlantis.

Asgardians. Norse myth says that they were taught civilized ways from the gods Odin, Heimdal and Frigga. Perhaps these were atlantean refugees who fled to Europe and tried to plant the seeds of civilization in their new homeland.

Atlantean Magic. I've allocated about 40,000 years to the "atlantian epoch", which is about the amount of time it took the guys in France to develop from painting pictures of horses on cave walls to building supersonic aircraft. Atlantean magic may be far more powerful than anything the modern guys have in their repretior.

Traces of Mu

Polynesian gods

Antartic colony?

Deros. Derros are a creature in D&D, but were originally presented to American culture as a race of psychotic dwarves who lived underground and used a mind-controlling ray to drive people insane. Actually, according to the Element Encyclopedia of Secret Societies and Hidden History, the dero were originally rantings of a mad man that got woven into a Lovecraftian-style tale.

A final thought is assigning tarot cards to the last 78 ages. The recent ones could be assigned cards based on what history and archeology suggests.

The Age of Aquarius -- The Star
The Age of Piscies -- The World
The Age of Aires -- The Chariot
The Age of Taurus -- The Sun
The Age of Gemini -- The Two of Cups
The Age of Cancer -- The Moon
The Age of Leo -- Strength

Ages in the Atlantean and Muvian epochs can be assigned cards randomly.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

There are lots of ways of assigning "Ages" to the earth, or to portions thereof. They probably tell us as much (or more) about the people doing the assigning as the ages themselves. Your Astrological ages certainly seems workable, but much will depend on the scope of your campaign.

Another "real world" possibility would be the Mayan Long Count calendar, with it's rapidly approaching "fin-de-siecle" in 2012, when, If Shadowrun is to be believed, we will all mutate into elves, dwarfs, orcs and trolls.

For (Western) history the generally accepted ages are probably
Pre-historic
Classical
Dark Ages
Medieaval
Renaissance
Industrial
"modern"

You'll note that different countries/areas entered these ages at slightly different times, dependant on your source

For North America you might reduce this to
Pre-columban
colonial
expansionist *
Superpower

*I'm sure there is a better term to cover the period when the former colonies of North America expanded across the continent, and started to make there presence felt more on the world stage...

I think, to Identify an "Age" you need have it cover a significant length of time, and for it's end to be marked by a major change, or a collection of significant changes - although not every change need necessarily mark the start of a new age (One could mark the "modern age" from the invention of powered flight, or the invention of the electronic computer, or the splitting of the atom - all of which have had a massive effect on the world, but you wouldn't start a new, discreet one for each).
One weakness of the Astrological or Mayan calendars is they define a fixed period of time, into which one must then fit historical (or esoteric) events to "define" the age. This is not the case with the use of "ages" either in Glorantha (The Ages in the God time, by definition do not have a fixed length, because Time didn't exist to measure them by, and since time it is events that have defined the ages) or Middle Earth (where Ages end with the fall of Melkor, the fall of Numenor and the defeat of Sauron**, and the destruction of the One Ring).

** A bit fuzzy this one!

If you wanted to go this way, a "Tarot based" set of ages would allow you to map events to an "age" without needing to have each age being the same length. Since things are likely to be more interesting (as in the chimese curse) if the age is about to change, then your first step would be to decide which trump matches the current age, which will tell you what the new age will be - then it's a matter of looking back to find events that match the earlier trumps to work out which age was which. This approach allows you to let the characters stumble on a set of tarot cards whose Major arcana echo these ages in their depictions, and give a hint of the future(s) to come...

 

[Utgardloki]

I think this is more a planning tool in my case than something that the PCs are going to be concerned with. Following my logic, an Atlantean-based campaign could have anywhere from 0 to 60,000 years of history behind it, with numerous changes within each of the 29 ages of Atlantis.

In fact, I think it might be useful to subdivide each age into three "acts" of 720 years each. I probably won't try to give fancy names to each of the 252 "acts" I have therefore defined, but the Age of Pisces can be divided into: the Classical Age, 148 BCE to 572 CE; the Middle Age, 572 to 1292 CE; and the Modern Age 1292 to 2012. The main use of "Acts" would be to conceive of a particular time in a prehistoric age, in the context of the changes before and after the time.

The Acts could represent turning points within each age. For example, the card for the Age of Pisces is the World, representing the unification of the world into a global culture. But inverted, it could be a failure to develope a world-wide civilization, which could have happened if the Black Plague which started in 1347 were twice as virulent as in our timestream. Perhaps there could even be evil creatures, maybe reptillian, who in the 14th Century are trying to create a strain of bubonic plague that is 100% fatal to humans. PCs could have to find their lab and shut them down or else the entire population of Europe, Asia and Africa will collapse.

 

[Utgardloki]

One thing that bothers me as I am working out this timeline, is how come, when Atlantis was flooded at the end of the last Ice Age, the Atlanteans didn't just move into America. Granted, there were probably a few refugees heading for the jungles of Brazil and Central America, but what would keep the Atlanteans from recreating their culture on the American shores?

Some thoughts:

1. There could have been a plague that wiped out most of the Atlanteans, something like the smallpox epidemic.

2. The Atlanteans could have provided the seed for American cultures such as the Olmecs, the Incas and the Iroquois.

3. There could have been supernatural creatures in easter America that fought against the Atlanteans and prevented them (especially plagued by plague and civil war) from establishing a beachhead.

 

[kintire]

One thing that bothers me as I am working out this timeline, is how come, when Atlantis was flooded at the end of the last Ice Age the Atlanteans didn't just move into America

It depends where you think Atlantis was. Plato puts it just outside the straits of Gibraltar, a fair hitch to America.

As far as your Ages are concerned, I would pick divisions of more global significance. They all seem rather Eurocentric

 

[duncan_disorderly]

One thing that bothers me as I am working out this timeline, is how come, when Atlantis was flooded at the end of the last Ice Age, the Atlanteans didn't just move into America

How much warning did the Atlanteans have of their impending doom? If it was entirely unexpected, or of unexpected magnitude then they may not have had the chance to move anywhere. Even if some refugees did end up there, if it wasn't a planned evacuation they may not have been able to rescue much of their culture, and so passed unnoticed or became absorbed by the local tribes.

 

[Utgardloki]

I suppose it is possible that in the late days of Atlantis, they had some ruler or something who denied that global warming was a problem, who said that there was a lack of scientific consensus. He might have claimed that there was no way to predict that a major port city would suffer massive flooding when a powerful hurricane combined with rising ocean waters to breach the walls protecting the city. But could that really happen? :?

I think I like the idea, however, that Atlantis was fighting a war against Hyperborea, and America was sort of a no-man's land. My notes have Hyperborea as a planet that orbits the star Thuban. If the war was fought by magic, it might not have left traces other than a few strange anomolies and references in native american myth. And it could deter atlanteans from settling in America.

(The native americans needs be bothered if the hyperboreans and atlanteans don't care about them, except for a few renegade deserters or situations where they may be caught in the crossfire.

I know of at least one south american myth about a race of giants who terrorized the inhabitants of an area until there was nobody left to terrorize, and then continued doing vile and unspeakable acts until a god named Con wiped them all out. They could be a band of atlantean deserters, living it up until somebody finally caught up to them.

 

[soltakss]

Looking at some timelines, we have Egypt starting major settlement at about 3500BC, with writing at 3100BC, stone pyramids at 2700BC, Mesopotamia starting large settlements with a temple culture about 3900BC but pottery from 4700BC and metal working from 4400BC, the Indus Valley settlements beginning at around 3100BC with large cities and writing from around 2600BC. Mesoamerica seems to have settlements forming at about 3000BC with temple sites and large cities at 1800BC with South America developing a lot later.

So, if you start with the idea of Atlantis being destroyed and survivors founding settlements on both sides of the Atlantic, then it might be reasonable to think of two periods. The first is the settling of the areas and the second is the building of temples and larger cities. This gives two waves of refugees, one sets up a basic civilisation, the next sets up cities and temples.

Also, what technology is shared across the cultures? The Americas didn't have the Wheel, metalworking beyond gold and possibly gold/copper or copper. The early cultures of Egypt, Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley didn't have the Wheel but could work gold and possibly copper. Writing developed roughly when cities/temples developed.

So, how can these be explained? The easiest answer is that there was no Atlantis and the civilisations developed in isolation on both sides of the Atlantic but that nearby civilisations had an effect on each other. But, where's the fun in that?

I like the idea of the Atlanteans having castes, with a Sun God-King ruling a caste of priests, a soldier caste and a peasant caste. The peasants were illiterate and did not have the skills for building large structures, but they did have the skills for building small villages and growing various crops. The first wave of refugees would probably have been the peasants, fleeing a catastrophe about 4000BC, or perhaps a little after. The second group of refugees were the Priests who brought literature and architecture, building pyramidical temples to the Sun Gods and worshipping a God King. The priests would have been able to work gold and possibly copper, but certainly not bronze or iron. Some peasants may have had that knowledge or perhaps some priests came across with the peasants to give early cultures metalworking.

More settlers came to the Middle East/Egypt/India than to Central America, as shown by the facts that the civilisations there were generally earlier and more sophisticated. The American civilisations seemed to have moved around a bit, starting in one place then springing up in another, then another and another. You can explain this by having a small group of Atlanteans moving around Latin America and spreading civilisation.

It's a shame that the dates aren't earlier as that would fit in better with the end of the Ice Age. In my opinion, civilisation probably started a lot earlier than people think, epople travelled further and cultures intermingled more than people give them credit for.

I reckon that if Atlantis existed then it would have been a Neolithic culture, started at the end of the Ice Age in the tropics and sank by the sudden warming and rising of the oceans, together with seismic activity due to their having angered the local volcano and earthquake gods. Most of them would have died out in the cataclysms but the survivors would have brought as much of their traditions as they could have salvaged. Some might have been powerful magicians, but if so they'd have tried to fight the waters and volcanoes and probably been killed.

Where would I put Atlantis? In the Caribbean, possibly beneath the waters around Bermuda and Costa Rica. But, that has problems in that it is closer to the Americas, so why didn't they colonise America rather than Asia/Africa? So, I'd have 2 Atlantises, Atlantis which might have been around the Canaries/Azores and which was destroyed by a cataclysm and New Atlantis which was settled by survivors of Old Atlantis in the Caribbean. In the first catastrophe, the peasants fled westwards and eastwards, fleeing the wrath of the gods and the evil priests who had brought the wrath down upon them. Those same priests fled westwards to a colony in the caribbean where they founded New Atlantis. New Atlantis was then destroyed about 700 years later in another flood/earthquake/volcanic eruption and the surviving priests fled eastwards and westwards. Most fled eastwards, because their westward flight previosuly didn't work, but some fled westwards into Central America where they laid low for a long time and then started buillding civilisation. Those who fled eastwards thought they were far enough away from New Atlantis that they could bring civilisation straight away.

Far fetched? Certainly. Reasonable? Probably not. Factual? Certainly not. Usable as a basis of Atlantis in a Roleplaying Game? Possibly.

 

[Utgardloki]

Looking at some timelines, we have Egypt starting major settlement at about 3500BC, with writing at 3100BC, stone pyramids at 2700BC, Mesopotamia starting large settlements with a temple culture about 3900BC but pottery from 4700BC and metal working from 4400BC, the Indus Valley settlements beginning at around 3100BC with large cities and writing from around 2600BC. Mesoamerica seems to have settlements forming at about 3000BC with temple sites and large cities at 1800BC with South America developing a lot later.

So, if you start with the idea of Atlantis being destroyed and survivors founding settlements on both sides of the Atlantic, then it might be reasonable to think of two periods. The first is the settling of the areas and the second is the building of temples and larger cities. This gives two waves of refugees, one sets up a basic civilisation, the next sets up cities and temples.

Also, what technology is shared across the cultures? The Americas didn't have the Wheel, metalworking beyond gold and possibly gold/copper or copper. The early cultures of Egypt, Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley didn't have the Wheel but could work gold and possibly copper. Writing developed roughly when cities/temples developed.

So, how can these be explained? The easiest answer is that there was no Atlantis and the civilisations developed in isolation on both sides of the Atlantic but that nearby civilisations had an effect on each other. But, where's the fun in that?

I am finding it interesting to imagine an atlantis that lacks much of the technology that was not shared across the Atlantic, or that there is not evidence for dating back before the Age of Leo (ended circa 8770 BCE). It is possible that the Atlanteans may have had some technology that was lost beneath the ocean and never found, and that inhabitants on one side or the other "didn't get the memo" about. My notes have the Atlantean language being very difficult to learn, and since America was probably much more sparsely inhabited than Europe, it may be that it took longer for the Americans to develope civilization.

Jared Diamond has dealt with the reasons why technology was so slow to develope in the Americas in his book Guns, Germs and Steel. Without an Atlantean civilization to support American civilization, the Americans were not able to keep up with the Europeans, who were in contact with civilization centers in the Middle East and beyond.

And having Hyperboreans hunting for Atlanteans across the continents would force any Atlanteans to keep a low profile.

I like the idea of the Atlanteans having castes, with a Sun God-King ruling a caste of priests, a soldier caste and a peasant caste. The peasants were illiterate and did not have the skills for building large structures, but they did have the skills for building small villages and growing various crops. The first wave of refugees would probably have been the peasants, fleeing a catastrophe about 4000BC, or perhaps a little after. The second group of refugees were the Priests who brought literature and architecture, building pyramidical temples to the Sun Gods and worshipping a God King. The priests would have been able to work gold and possibly copper, but certainly not bronze or iron. Some peasants may have had that knowledge or perhaps some priests came across with the peasants to give early cultures metalworking.

More settlers came to the Middle East/Egypt/India than to Central America, as shown by the facts that the civilisations there were generally earlier and more sophisticated. The American civilisations seemed to have moved around a bit, starting in one place then springing up in another, then another and another. You can explain this by having a small group of Atlanteans moving around Latin America and spreading civilisation.

Another explanation cames from Jared Diamond's book, in which he argues that it is more difficult to move large numbers of people and goods around America than it is across Eurasia. As a result, when an ecological disaster strikes one area (which is well-explored in another of his books, Collapse), the Eurasians can just move wholescale into another area, or at least enough of their goods get moved that somebody else picks up the banners and continues the embriodery. The Americans are stuck where they are, and are forced into an ever-increasing cycle of savage warfare that destroys their cities and nobody is around to pass on more than scraps of their knowledge.

(In a way, the situation is reversed now, with modern technology allowing millions of Mexicans to cross the border into the United States, while placing the Iraqis and Palestinians under virtual siege serves an equivalent function that the geographical barriers around Mexico served in past eras.)

(Applying this logic to Atlantis, it is plausible that that place would have seen several cycles of enlightened civilization separated by savage violence. Perhaps being closer to Atlantis could even have been a liability to the Americans if they picked up some of the Atlantean habits. This is using Diamond's controversial thesis that geography is destiny.)

It's a shame that the dates aren't earlier as that would fit in better with the end of the Ice Age. In my opinion, civilisation probably started a lot earlier than people think, epople travelled further and cultures intermingled more than people give them credit for.

I've also been working in notes regarding Adam from the Bible and his descendants. I am considering him as being not at all connected with Atlantis, perhaps even hostile to Atlantis, but being the founder of a population that lived in area that is now occupied by the Black Sea. There is research indicating that there was a great flood that increased this sea to its current size, around 5500 BCE.

Refugees heading out from that catastrophy could have served the same function as a second wave of Atlanteans, except that they would have penetrated a lot deeper into the Middle East, and would not have affected America.

The Atlanteans could have provided primitive technologies such as art, the idea of building, the idea of cultivation, the idea of domesticating animals, but no actual samples. (Or perhaps not anything that could survive on the wrong side of the Atlantic.) And, of course, magic. Population density largely explains why large American cities took longer to develope than they did in Eurasia.