Age categories?

iltharanos

Mongoose
Just wondering why there are no age categories given in the Conan RPG. You know, e.g.

Middle Age at 35 years:
-Effect: -1 to all physical ability scores, +1 to all mental ability scores.

Given the gritty realism of the Conan RPG, i would have thought they'd have included age categories, since as it is now there is (stat-wise) no physical or mental difference between playing a fresh-faced 20 year old soldier and a grizzled old soldier that has seen 80 years. Unless of course there are age categories in the Atlantean edition.
 

thulsa

Mongoose
On a related note, the Disguise skill refers to these "age categories" (but this is probably a cut-and-past job from the SRD).

Whether there are penalties or not, we need a table that lists the age (in years) associated with each category (how old are you if you are "venerable" in Hyboria? What about "adulthood"?).

It's easy to make up such a table, or use the one in the PHB, of course, but given the "gritty realism" of the Conan RPG, would there really be that many venerable 70-year-olds, and could people really live to be 110 years old? (Excepting scholars who extend their lifespan with sorcery.)

- thulsa
 

iltharanos

Mongoose
thulsa said:
On a related note, the Disguise skill refers to these "age categories" (but this is probably a cut-and-past job from the SRD).

Whether there are penalties or not, we need a table that lists the age (in years) associated with each category (how old are you if you are "venerable" in Hyboria? What about "adulthood"?).

It's easy to make up such a table, or use the one in the PHB, of course, but given the "gritty realism" of the Conan RPG, would there really be that many venerable 70-year-olds, and could people really live to be 110 years old? (Excepting scholars who extend their lifespan with sorcery.)

- thulsa

Exactly. Would there also be modifiers based on one's race? So that if "venerable" were 70 and one were Vendhyan (let's say they were rumored to be long-lived) your modifier were +5, so that you wouldn't actually be considered venerable until you were 75.
 

argo

Mongoose
Middle age: -1 Str, Dex, Con; +1 Int, Wis, Cha
Old Age: -2 Str, Dex, Con; +1 Int, Wis, Cha
Venerable: -3 Str, Dex, Con; +1 Int, Wis, Cha

All modifiers are cumulative.

For a human:
middle age = 35
old = 53
venerable = 70
maximum = + 2d20

As for the question, can someone in the Hyborian age really live to be 70? Remember, the age categories are deterministic, not relative. If the average life span for a comoner is 38 then it just means he wears himself out by middle age, not that he advanced through the categories any faster.

And I'd hope to meet plenty of non-scholar 90 year-olds in a game of Conan. This is pulp fantasy and what is more pulpy than some cranky old bastard either passing on words of wisdom and reminding the young bucks just how tough an old dog can be? :wink:
 

iltharanos

Mongoose
argo said:
Middle age: -1 Str, Dex, Con; +1 Int, Wis, Cha
Old Age: -2 Str, Dex, Con; +1 Int, Wis, Cha
Venerable: -3 Str, Dex, Con; +1 Int, Wis, Cha

All modifiers are cumulative.

For a human:
middle age = 35
old = 53
venerable = 70
maximum = + 2d20

Not that i don't appreciate all the typing, but those are right out of the PHB ... ahh well, I guess I'll just use the default PHB age categories until Mongoose decides (if ever) to put its own age categories.

As for the question, can someone in the Hyborian age really live to be 70? Remember, the age categories are deterministic, not relative. If the average life span for a comoner is 38 then it just means he wears himself out by middle age, not that he advanced through the categories any faster.

True, but there are lifespan differences between the different races of Conan (or so I would think), just as there are lifespan differences today between various nations (mainly due to healthcare and diet).

And I'd hope to meet plenty of non-scholar 90 year-olds in a game of Conan. This is pulp fantasy and what is more pulpy than some cranky old bastard either passing on words of wisdom and reminding the young bucks just how tough an old dog can be? :wink:

90 year old pirates? True enough ... now that's where "salty old dog" must have come from. :lol:
 

argo

Mongoose
iltharanos said:
Not that i don't appreciate all the typing, but those are right out of the PHB ... ahh well, I guess I'll just use the default PHB age categories until Mongoose decides (if ever) to put its own age categories.
Isn't that the point of OGL gamming though?

Heh, I suppose by now somebody on this board must be getting prety tired of me being a cheerleader for the SRD but I really dont' see any reason why you need "Special Conan Age Categories" when the stock ones work just fine?

As for the question, can someone in the Hyborian age really live to be 70? Remember, the age categories are deterministic, not relative. If the average life span for a comoner is 38 then it just means he wears himself out by middle age, not that he advanced through the categories any faster.

True, but there are lifespan differences between the different races of Conan (or so I would think), just as there are lifespan differences today between various nations (mainly due to healthcare and diet).
Eh, do you really need to do all that work to stat up different charts for each race? Just handwave it: PC's get to use the stock chart (becaause they're special) and everybody else is as old as you say they are. Build in whatever age penalties look good to you and get on with the other chores of GMing.

Hope that helps.
 

iltharanos

Mongoose
argo said:
iltharanos said:
Not that i don't appreciate all the typing, but those are right out of the PHB ... ahh well, I guess I'll just use the default PHB age categories until Mongoose decides (if ever) to put its own age categories.
Isn't that the point of OGL gamming though?

Heh, I suppose by now somebody on this board must be getting prety tired of me being a cheerleader for the SRD but I really dont' see any reason why you need "Special Conan Age Categories" when the stock ones work just fine?

True, but the point is I really shouldn't have to ... as the Conan game is supposed to be a stand-alone all-in-one system. The lack of age categories isn't really as bad as the lack of falling rules or rules for traps, but it's something I expected to be present in a stand-alone game.

As for the question, can someone in the Hyborian age really live to be 70? Remember, the age categories are deterministic, not relative. If the average life span for a comoner is 38 then it just means he wears himself out by middle age, not that he advanced through the categories any faster.

True, but there are lifespan differences between the different races of Conan (or so I would think), just as there are lifespan differences today between various nations (mainly due to healthcare and diet).
Eh, do you really need to do all that work to stat up different charts for each race? Just handwave it: PC's get to use the stock chart (becaause they're special) and everybody else is as old as you say they are. Build in whatever age penalties look good to you and get on with the other chores of GMing.

Hope that helps.

I really don't need to, it'd just be nice. :D
 

mthomason

Mongoose
argo said:
iltharanos said:
Not that i don't appreciate all the typing, but those are right out of the PHB ... ahh well, I guess I'll just use the default PHB age categories until Mongoose decides (if ever) to put its own age categories.
Isn't that the point of OGL gamming though?

Heh, I suppose by now somebody on this board must be getting prety tired of me being a cheerleader for the SRD but I really dont' see any reason why you need "Special Conan Age Categories" when the stock ones work just fine?

I think it'd be nice to have some clarification on the point of the OGL rulebooks. :)

The way I understand it:

The OGL rulebooks were designed to sit outside of d20 licencing, and not require you to have the SRD, a Player's Handbook, or anything else. The OGL logo was used in place of a d20 logo specifically to allow Mongoose to include the material thats excluded by using that logo (character creation/experience rules). If you still need that other rulebook (or the SRD) too, then theres no real advantage to buying an OGL RPG instead of a d20 RPG (other than the fact that it's by Mongoose, and therefore incredibly cool, of course :) ).

From a branding point of view, I sell OGL rulebooks to my customers on the premise that they won't need to buy a D&D PHB in order to play them, unlike the d20 RPGs where they will.
 

Sutek

Mongoose
look, there's no rules about falling damage, but there's no rules about Fire damage or Cold or thirst/water and dehydration...

make it up.

Maybe Mongoose will come up with specifics at a leater time, but I hardly hold it agaist them for sqeezing stuff like that out in favor of what's in. The game is great. The bits that are missing are unfortunate, but not game threatening and at least given the fact that Conan is a D20 OGL tie in, developing house rules that are ballanced is easy to do.

Why can't people just DIY this sort of thing, read an encyclopedia and come up with rules to reflect reality on thier own instead of expecting the folks at Mongoose to have a 100% comprehensive book with arror free, spoon-fed rules in it?

Perhaps I'm jaded because I've been playing for decades now - this sort of thing is second nature to me.

Here's an off the cuff solution to falling, just as an example: 1d10 damage, armor doesn't help at all. Character allowed a REF save to avoid damage (negate any die he wishes) up to his DEXb total number of attempts (DEXb = +3; he can make 3 REF saves to negate 3 dice of damage after the damage is rolled).

It's jsut that easy. I like that, so I might use it. Just do the same. I truly don't understand what the complaint is here, p-articularly coming from people who apparently know the rule or are aware of where to find it, but who are still complaining anyway because it's not in the Conan Rule Book proper. Makes no sense...
 

mthomason

Mongoose
Sutek said:
look, there's no rules about falling damage, but there's no rules about Fire damage or Cold or thirst/water and dehydration...

The rules for falling damage are referenced elsewhere in the rulebook (the Climb skill), with the implication they can be found inside said rulebook.
This is an obvious (although not that important) error in the rulebook.
Any GM worth their salt should be able to cope with this. However, they should not be jumped on for pointing out the mistake.
This is not a big deal, until people start complaining about the errors being posted up here and making it into one. Surely these forums are here to provide feedback on the products, to help Mongoose improve them in the future?

The rules for fire, cold, dehydration, abduction by aliens, seducing a tent full of harem girls, performing surgical procedures, building tactical nuclear devices are not referenced in the rulebook, and are therefore understandably absent. Any any GM worth their salt should be able to make them up or find them elsewhere. They are not a part of the rulebook, nor claimed to be. Including them would be incredibly stupid (with the exception of the harem girls, who should be included with lots of pictures).

Theres a difference here. One is an error, the other is an rules design decision. Errors usually get pointed out by those who find them, so they can be corrected in the errata, and not worried about any more. Rules design decisions can likewise be commented on, but errata should not be expected. This is probably the first time I've ever seen other posters complain when a legitimate mistake has been pointed out.

I'm yet to see an RPG rulebook by anyone that's come out 100% perfect - but I expect when I eventually do, it will be a Mongoose one. At least they bother with an online errata, plus giving us somewhere to post our opinions and thoughts on their products. Unlike some, they don't just say "tough, you bought the book, and now we have your money". So whats wrong with helping the guys by pointing out the very few errors that slip through the net? I don't hold this tiny error against Mongoose, I've seen far worse in other peoples products. I just don't like seeing the pointing out of the error held against other posters.
 

iltharanos

Mongoose
What mthomason said ...

It's all well and good for those like Sutek that have been gaming for decades, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone has that many gaming years under his or her belt, or have even lived that many years. While it may be second nature for the more experienced, the lack of "referenced" rules (e.g. falling, traps, etc.) can prove problematic for the novice gamer, especially the ones whose first d20 purchase happens to be the Conan RPG. Most everything posted here is constructive in some way. It's not as if the post started with:

OMG I can't believe XXX rule was not in the CONAN RPG! Mongoose is insane! I will never buy any of their books again, they're so negligent! DAMN THEM ALL TO NURGAL's hell!!!
 

Sutek

Mongoose
True, but that opinion was made evident elsewhere in the thread regarding Falling damage. Sorry...my bad for cross-posting the two topics and my irritation along with it. :)

I guess my final comment on "why arent' ______ rules in the Rule Book?" is....that's why we're all here and why the forums are so great. Sorry for being the jaded old gamer that I am and forgetting that there are actually newbie gamers out there that I shouldn't berate...

...much. :p
 

iltharanos

Mongoose
Sutek said:
True, but that opinion was made evident elsewhere in the thread regarding Falling damage. Sorry...my bad for cross-posting the two topics and my irritation along with it. :)

I guess my final comment on "why arent' ______ rules in the Rule Book?" is....that's why we're all here and why the forums are so great. Sorry for being the jaded old gamer that I am and forgetting that there are actually newbie gamers out there that I shouldn't berate...

...much. :p

Cool. :D

The forums here are doubly great because we can gather the wisdom of the many experienced gamers and couple that with direct feedback from the Powers that Be. A regular two for one special. :wink:
 

mthomason

Mongoose
iltharanos said:
It's all well and good for those like Sutek that have been gaming for decades

I've been assuming his first rulebook was printed on papyrus. Right, Sutek? ;)

And sorry if I got locked into rant mode back there :)
 

Sutek

Mongoose
Yep. It had two rules:

1) You are Conan

2) Roll dice.

From there, the errata is a beeyatch to get thru...

;)
 

Sutek

Mongoose
two...

we were considering using them as trade collateral, but we'll have to get back to you on that...
 
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