Again, Dangerous Empty Hex Jumps.......

[rust]

There are always heroic volunteers, for highly expendable small units which can do valuable work at low risk to the owning side.

True, but how much do we really know of the activities of such units du-
ring wars that happened centuries ago ?

Even today only professional and amateur military historians are aware
of the auxiliary cruisers' operations during WWI, less than a century ago,
and I have no doubt that the number of people with that knowledge, or
with any interest in the subject, will continue to decline rapidly.

Moreover, the informations about such special units tend to be kept secret
for a couple of years after the war in question, and if the data get lost be-
fore they are made public, all that remains are rumours.
Just think about the lost or intentionally destroyed archives of a couple of
East European secret services not so long ago. A Vilani general could have
had the same idea when the Vilani empire dissolved.

And even if the data get into the hands of historians, this is no guarantee
that they will be kept available for all times. In the case of the Traveller
setting, I could well imagine a loss of informations both on the Vilani side
and on the Terran side, especially during the Long Night, so it would not
come as a surprise that Third Imperium sources do not mention such spe-
cial units.

In the end, the fact that empty hex jumps by single ships and small units
are not mentioned anywhere does only prove that they are not mentioned
anywhere - it says nothing about whether such operations happened or
not.

 

[captainjack23]

There are always heroic volunteers, for highly expendable small units which can do valuable work at low risk to the owning side.

True, but how much do we really know of the activities of such units du-
ring wars that happened centuries ago ?

Even today only professional and amateur military historians are aware
of the auxiliary cruisers' operations during WWI, less than a century ago,
and I have no doubt that the number of people with that knowledge, or
with any interest in the subject, will continue to decline rapidly.

Moreover, the informations about such special units tend to be kept secret
for a couple of years after the war in question, and if the data get lost be-
fore they are made public, all that remains are rumours.
Just think about the lost or intentionally destroyed archives of a couple of
East European secret services not so long ago. A Vilani general could have
had the same idea when the Vilani empire dissolved.

And even if the data get into the hands of historians, this is no guarantee
that they will be kept available for all times. In the case of the Traveller
setting, I could well imagine a loss of informations both on the Vilani side
and on the Terran side, especially during the Long Night, so it would not
come as a surprise that Third Imperium sources do not mention such spe-
cial units.

In the end, the fact that empty hex jumps by single ships and small units
are not mentioned anywhere does only prove that they are not mentioned
anywhere - it says nothing about whether such operations happened or
not.

A very interesting point. Must...think....more.......

Ta !

 

[alex_greene]

Of course, nobody could imagine that people could organise something like a string of fuel dump stations spread across an expanse of otherwise "empty" space, in an attempt to create a "North West Passage" through that expanse, shaving 20 jumps off the journey.

These fuel caches would require absolute precision Jumping to reach them, which means access to exact astronomical coordinates. And since most commercial entities have to make do with civilian nav systems, I guess that would have to leave either the military, or the Scout services.

Or a spy network. I mean, an Empire without good intelligence falls, right?

 

[AndrewW]

Of course, nobody could imagine that people could organise something like a string of fuel dump stations spread across an expanse of otherwise "empty" space, in an attempt to create a "North West Passage" through that expanse, shaving 20 jumps off the journey.

These fuel caches would require absolute precision Jumping to reach them, which means access to exact astronomical coordinates. And since most commercial entities have to make do with civilian nav systems, I guess that would have to leave either the military, or the Scout services.

This is done in Reft Sector. Jump drive tuning is usually performed before jumping to the fueling station, with good facilities for this available.

 

[alex_greene]

Sorted.

Before I forget - the third act of the Trail of the Sky Raiders trilogy mostly took place in an empty hex.

I seriously miss my copy of Tomb of The Sky Raiders. I seem to have misplaced it in a house move.

 

[captainjack23]

Sorted.

Before I forget - the third act of the Trail of the Sky Raiders trilogy mostly took place in an empty hex.

I seriously miss my copy of Tomb of The Sky Raiders. I seem to have misplaced it in a house move.

I think its available on Drivethrough RPG as a PDF, at least.

 

[captainjack23]

Of course, nobody could imagine that people could organise something like a string of fuel dump stations spread across an expanse of otherwise "empty" space, in an attempt to create a "North West Passage" through that expanse, shaving 20 jumps off the journey.

These fuel caches would require absolute precision Jumping to reach them, which means access to exact astronomical coordinates. And since most commercial entities have to make do with civilian nav systems, I guess that would have to leave either the military, or the Scout services.

Or a spy network. I mean, an Empire without good intelligence falls, right?

even with 'em......as we see. My assumption is that there is a parallel courier system running at J5 (or 6) with very direct routes between imperial control points - no meandering about due to porkbarrel and local interests as we see with the xboat routes -and they are updated, to boot.
One could argue that the inefficient and sometimes odd layout of the xboat system is in service of keeping info flowing just a bit slower than the Man has access to..... 8)

For current campaigns, EHJ's are no problem theoretically -especially if one is using a "rifter" design which carries a double load of fuel Obviously these are only economically viable in areas without high jump service, and less than a jump 5 to cross.

My general rule of thumb is that one needs a computer appropriate for the next jump number when one is jumping into or out of an empty hex, with a smallish penalty anyway ; this is cumulative if one jumps from an empty hex to an empty hex; precise aiming for a non stellar calibration point requires yet another computer level plus another penalty.

So, worst case , jumping out of an empty hex to hit a calibration point in an empty hex requires +3 levels of computer, and ~ -3 to the roll.

That's for post IW, obviously.

 

[Sturn]

However, the rogue planet scenario is kind of a problem, also: where is the rogue planet on local and current maps ? A J1 connection to terra would be a big economic asset; and after all the J1 traffic that did go thru it in the early (ie pre J2 terran period) IW period, it's got to be a poorly kept secret.

Because it is no longer needed. Barnard and Terra are still J2 from anything else once you get there. If you are using a J1 ship moving between Terra-Barnard, you still need J2 to get anywhere else. No one is going to be using a J1 ship along this route unless you are only servicing Terra-Barnard. The fuel station at the Brown Dwarf (not a Rogue Planet iirc), would probably have costly fuel anyhow. I would think anyone moving along the Terra-Barnard route in the 3rd Imp would do so using J2 (look at the map, anyone operating in this area needs a J2) or is making two J1's bringing the fuel themselves (an extremely rare occurence in my opinion).

Once J2 is discovered, I could see the old fuel station being moth-balled, turned into a naval cache, etc. After thousands of years of unuse, no wonder it is not on any modern maps. With current technology a gravity mass is not needed to jump to if using J1 to bridge the gap. The hex that once held the fuel station is pretty much the same as an empty hex to 3rd Imp travellers.

 

[rust]

The hex that once held the fuel station is pretty much the same as an empty hex to 3rd Imp travellers.

Besides, it may well be a completely empty hex by now, depending on
the brown dwarf's motion and the motions of the stars of the other sys-
tems involved. And once the brown dwarf had moved beyond Jump-1,
there was no reason to keep its previous position on the new maps.

 

[captainjack23]

The hex that once held the fuel station is pretty much the same as an empty hex to 3rd Imp travellers.

Besides, it may well be a completely empty hex by now, depending on
the brown dwarf's motion and the motions of the stars of the other sys-
tems involved. And once the brown dwarf had moved beyond Jump-1,
there was no reason to keep its previous position on the new maps.

Rust and Stern.....

Both good ideas.....I thought I remembered Barnard as being part of a connection/chain/micro main of some kind - but I'll need to look at the maps again, I guess. If it is a dead end gas stop, it is indeed off the freeway now, and probably gone. Great place to have a spooky wilderness adventure in the midst of a civilized and crowded area of space, looks like....the old "dutchman's lost mine" kind of thing...hmmmm. A potential hellhole if nothing else..

 

[AndrewW]

Once J2 is discovered, I could see the old fuel station being moth-balled, turned into a naval cache, etc. After thousands of years of unuse, no wonder it is not on any modern maps. With current technology a gravity mass is not needed to jump to if using J1 to bridge the gap. The hex that once held the fuel station is pretty much the same as an empty hex to 3rd Imp travellers.

You only think it's mothballed. Those that took over want it that way and wanted it off the maps. Now it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy, where all the scum of the universe congregate.

 

[captainjack23]

You only think it's mothballed. Those that took over want it that way and wanted it off the maps. Now it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy, where all the scum of the universe congregate.

One Jump away from Occupied Terra. Gee. Wonder who might have Secret bases there........?

 

[rust]

One Jump away from Occupied Terra. Gee. Wonder who might have Secret bases there........?

Well, it is a group of "freelancers", since no one wants to be caught red
handed by sending their own personnel there.

The Imperium is convinced that they operate a secret monitoring station
for the secret arm of their Scout Service, the Solomani are convinced that
they are there to support the underground liberation movement on Terra,
the Vegans are not entirely sure that they work for their intelligence ser-
vice, but they get lots of money from all three.

And their orders from the Hivers, of course.

 

[captainjack23]

One Jump away from Occupied Terra. Gee. Wonder who might have Secret bases there........?

Well, it is a group of "freelancers", since no one wants to be caught red
handed by sending their own personnel there.

The Imperium is convinced that they operate a secret monitoring station
for the secret arm of their Scout Service, the Solomani are convinced that
they are there to support the underground liberation movement on Terra,
the Vegans are not entirely sure that they work for their intelligence ser-
vice, but they get lots of money from all three.

And their orders from the Hivers, of course.

next time I'm in Germany, I expect you to run this game for me........

And, yes, I know it's a big place. I'll travel.

 

[Vile]

I still want to see that table when you're all done, you know. :twisted:

 

[captainjack23]

I still want to see that table when you're all done, you know. :twisted:

Okay......I'll get riiiiight on that. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Its definitely possible. I've been doing it for over 30 years! :wink:

 

[captainjack23]

Its definitely possible. I've been doing it for over 30 years! :wink:

Which ? making tables, collating traveller rationalizations or jumping into empty hexes ? (possibly the last two being the same) :twisted:

 

[DanlDrake]

I have a thought about EHJs. Not on a ruling on if they are possible by the rules, But I thought of why they might be rare. What affect would sitting that far out in the void have of the crew. They have to wait for the jump drive to spool up again and the navigator to plot the next jump. What happens if something breaks in the first jump and there is no planet or base to hail for repairs? I know space crews are used to being in the vastness of space but this is even beyound system space distances by a long shot. I think it might be something not done lightly when it is done.


Daniel

 

[rust]

I think it might be something not done lightly when it is done.

A good point, and a possible reason why commercial ships avoid empty
hex jumps whenever possible: The insurance premium for ship and car-
go could go up if the ship leaves the established jump routes with their
readily available rescue and repair services.