Admirals - making them usable

Clanger said:
That is a more workable system each Admiral ability costs a Patrol point. It makes it easier that way and have a scale on what you can spend. Make the cap the level of the game.

1 ability = Patrol
2 abilities = Skirmish
3 abilities = 1 Skirmish, 1 Patrol
4 abilities = 1 Raid point.

Good idea Kenny Boy.
Click to expand...

For some of the abilities this is too cheap IMHO.

1 Patrol for +2 Command is a no brainer for virtually everyone.

Also - know you are going to face E-mines? 1 Patrol for 9" squadron range is again a no brainer.

Hmmmm for 1 Raid I'll take an Admiral with:

Inspired Command
Linked Targeting
The Master Plan
Legendary Tactician

Then I'll stick him on a G'Vrahn. :twisted:

Regards,

Dave
 
Admirals are just rubbish all an admiral should do to be reasonable is:

+1CQ to his ship + sqaudron all ships in the squadron can use his CQ rather than there own.

1 re-roll per turn.

+1 command

perhapes 9" Squadron(s)?

The hole concept of Admirals unbalances the game as much as a good set of crits.
 
we have been useing them quite a bit recently and I personally really enjoy them :)

However it has to be set up so they are usable - usually with

"choose your fleet and add a free Admiral on to it"
 
Here, I agree mostly with skavendan. I find admirals to be a journey into the unknown; in particular, I think two Admirals are well worth the buy in current games:

1). Sheridan in an ISA fight
2). Jha'dur

I think with this release there are two more well worth it

3). Delenn
4). Ivanova

The second of which I worry about being broken even with current rules!
 
Even Sheridan and Jha'Dur I don't see as being worth it. One WS with Sheridan, or 2 WS's? 2 WS has double the firepower, and half the e-mine/Accurate weapon vulnerability. Although some scenarios such as blockade run, Sheridan would definitely be very good (too good?).

Only admiral I've ever taken was Sheridan on a Victory, mainly to get 2 special actions. My plan was to permanently run All Hands On Deck to negate the "big ships vs swarms" vulnerability. Curse that 6-1 crit I took on the first turn.
 
Burger said:
Even Sheridan and Jha'Dur I don't see as being worth it. One WS with Sheridan, or 2 WS's? 2 WS has double the firepower, and half the e-mine/Accurate weapon vulnerability. Although some scenarios such as blockade run, Sheridan would definitely be very good (too good?).

Only admiral I've ever taken was Sheridan on a Victory, mainly to get 2 special actions. My plan was to permanently run All Hands On Deck to negate the "big ships vs swarms" vulnerability. Curse that 6-1 crit I took on the first turn.
Click to expand...

Victory's must be bad crit magnets. In 1st ed Armageddon rules I had a Victory shot by an Octurion in turn one (Centauri player won initiative). He landed 2 crits a 4-6 (at the time all weapons off line) and a permanent No DC vital hit. I had a large flying paperweight for the rest of the battle. I think my jaw hit the table I couldn't believe my rotten luck.
 
I'd mixed a few of the ideas up, and this proposal fell out.

Vanilla Admirals I'd make a vanilla Admiral free. So each player gets one for his fleet. But make them only available in games of a certain size or above.

Patrol - None available, they have better things to be doing with their time
Skirmish - None available, they have better things to be doing with their time
Raid - Admiral with one Trait (think a Veteran Ship Captain)
Battle - Admiral with two Traits
War - Admiral with three Traits
Armageddon - Admiral with three Traits

The Admiral must be placed on the ship of highest PL, or on a ship with the Command +X trait.

The Admiral is located on the Bridge. Any critical hit to the Bridge location (6-1) has a chance of injuring the Admiral and his staff. On a roll of 5+ the Admiral is disabled for the remainder of the game (and is unavailable for the following campaign turn). The enemy scores half VPs for killing a ship of the same PL as the Admiral).

Should the Admirals vessel be captured, then there is a possibility of capturing the Admiral. On a roll of 5+ the Admiral has been successfully evacuated from the ship before he is captured. A captured Admiral scores double VPs for capturing a ship of the same PL.

Should the Admirals vessel be reduced to 0 crew (including by destroying it), then there is a possibility of killing the Admiral. On a roll of 5+ the Admiral has been successfully evacuated from the ship (and may be recovered after the battle in the same way as adrift hulls). A killed Admiral scores equal VPs for destroying a ship of the same PL.

Campaigns You'd get a free FAP to spend on Admirals (broken down as normal from the list above). For example, in a 10 Battle campaign, you could have a single Battle level Admiral, or two Raid level Admirals.

Admirals may be swapped between ships in the roster in the same way as fighters.

An Admiral may attempt to increase his traits. Not sure the best way to do this.

Should the original Admiral(s) be killed, a replacement commander may be requested from Homeworld. The new Admiral will be at Raid level (possessing one trait) and cost the same as a Raid level ship (12RR). The higher ranking Admirals are rare, and are too busy serving elsewhere.

Named Admirals would replace any vanilla admiral and you'd need to pay extra FAPs for.
 
I really don't like the free admirals thing. Just one more aspect of the game you start having to play with and be good at, instead of an option you can learn to use and take if you want.

These are supposed to be special individuals not required reading.

The issue right now is some folks feel the cost is too high, largely because they double the cost of you highest ship. This limits you to buying a ship at the level of the fight to get any kind of value, preferably you buy down to go back up and get you admiral for a point and swarm with the rest.

If cost did double as you went up they would be far more common.

Given they will increase the abilities a significant portion of everything else you buy they shouldn't be too cheap.

Ripple
 
If everyone A) had a few Admirals to choose from, and B) got one for free, it'd act like a warcaster in Warmachine. If everyone has to take one, who you chose would make for another element of gameplay. Some might make taking larger ships more worthwhile, some might favors fighters, etc.

That'd change the whole game, I think for the better.
 
I am working on admirals for every fleet with unique abilities.
currently have some ideas on abbai, pak and vree admirals.
 
Actually that was one of the things I hated most about War Machine. Turned it from a steam punk game into chess if funny pawns.

That's actually the biggest issue for me is that the game stops being about the ships and becomes about the admiral. Look at the series, they didn't go specifically for the flagships. Our hero's went out to find the trouble, but you put this in and you that's what you'll see... character hunting.

Find out what he's trying to leverage and pop the source.

Just adding another layer of complexity to the game and we can't even balance the layers we have.

Ripple
 
As longs as they are in the "Advanced" section of the rules they can still be optional - but at present they are over priced and never used.

They can be a fun enhancement to the game - just need to be made worthwhile but remain optional................hence my - "If both players agree"

:)
 
Ripple said:
Actually that was one of the things I hated most about War Machine. Turned it from a steam punk game into chess if funny pawns.

That's actually the biggest issue for me is that the game stops being about the ships and becomes about the admiral. Look at the series, they didn't go specifically for the flagships. Our hero's went out to find the trouble, but you put this in and you that's what you'll see... character hunting.

Find out what he's trying to leverage and pop the source.

Just adding another layer of complexity to the game and we can't even balance the layers we have.

Ripple
Click to expand...

Here, here!
 
All of this concern for where admirals go. Admirals go where they wish to go. In the end, one must ask themselves the ultimate question... what would Jim Kirk do? ;)
 
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