Admiral

[nekomata fuyu]

Nothing gives greater protection than being stuck behind a dust cloud in the corner of the table, with noone being able to shoot at you. If the Admiral has fleetwide abilities, this won't lessen his effectiveness, and in a War5 game, you won't miss the firepower of such a small ship. If you had put him on a War ship however, you couldn't really afford for it to be hidden away from the game, so it would potentially offer less protection.

 

[Burger]

Sheridan is a bad example...
Matt has previously ruled that since Sheridan is only allowed on White Stars and Victories (and EA ships) he can be on a White Star in any ISA fleet, even if it contains higher PL ships, as long as those higher PL ships are not Victories!

 

[SylvrDragon]

Nothing gives greater protection than being stuck behind a dust cloud in the corner of the table, with noone being able to shoot at you. If the Admiral has fleetwide abilities, this won't lessen his effectiveness, and in a War5 game, you won't miss the firepower of such a small ship. If you had put him on a War ship however, you couldn't really afford for it to be hidden away from the game, so it would potentially offer less protection.

That is so highly circumstantial. First off, it requires terrain be set in the right places. Yea, it's not too hard to get terrain into place, but this could mean sacrificing needed cover for the rest of your fleet, just to hide a single ship. Second, this only offers protection from certain fleets. What if you're fighting very fast fleets, such as the Dilgar, ISA or Drazi, who would have no trouble sending a ship or two to kill of yoru Admiral? Sure this takes a ship or two out of the fight to deal with an Admiral, but it would surely be worth it of get rid of fleet wide bonuses. In most of the games I've played there have either been no terrain, or very little terrain and I frequently fight fast or long ranged fleets. Which means that if there's terrain I'll want it in a more central location, thus closer to the battle, where I can take advantage of it to protect large sections of my fleet, or to force my opponent into a corner. So it's just not logical to base a game ruling on something that is only valid every now and then.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Yes, the specific example I gave is circumstantial, but so is your assumption that the admiral's ship will be getting into the thick of things and generally being as vulnerable as any other skirmish level ship.

 

[SylvrDragon]

Yes, the specific example I gave is circumstantial, but so is your assumption that the admiral's ship will be getting into the thick of things and generally being as vulnerable as any other skirmish level ship.

I never said anything of the such. I just said a skirmish level ship leaves them less protected than a battle or war does. That's hardly circumstantial. Most fleets either have 24"-30" weapons, or ships with speeds of 12-15, or in some cases both! Who says that an Admiral has to be in the thick of it to draw fire?

 

[nekomata fuyu]

If the ship is staying out of the battle, and generally using whatever other tricks that it can to avoid being fired at, it's better protected than the same ship being used normally.
Yes, the enemy commander can then put extra effort into trying to overcome these tricks, but that usually means drawing ships off and potentially putting them in compromising positions. All so that you can try and justify an admiral costing a fraction of the price for the same effect.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Sheridan is a bad example...
Matt has previously ruled that since Sheridan is only allowed on White Stars and Victories (and EA ships) he can be on a White Star in any ISA fleet, even if it contains higher PL ships, as long as those higher PL ships are not Victories!

That rule right there makes the whole rule broken. The ISA can circumvent the rule by using Sheridan on a White Star in a War level engagement and no one else has this option! (well, that I know of)

Not quite he didn't.

He commands and oversees the strike against the Shadows during their attempt at refugee slaughter in "Shadow Dancing" from a Sharlin.

LBH

Yes, I totally forgot about that. However, the battle of Coreana 6 was even larger and he was on a white star for that engagement.

I suppose that one of the gameplay reasons for having to be on the biggest ship is the fleetwide admiral traits. If you could put Admirals on smaller ships, in a War 5 you could just stick your admiral on a Skirmish level ship and have all the fleetwide benefits for only 1 Skirmish point.
Whilst I don't like the idea of Admirals being stuck on the largest ship only, I can see problems having otherwise with the current Admirals. Maybe we could even benefit from scrapping th current Admiral rules and starting from scratch?

First, that'd make the skip 1 raid point, as it ups the PL of the ship. Second, that leaves your Admiral on a Skirmish ship. Yea, let's see that survive past the first turn. lol As far as I can see, there's no logical or balancing reason to restrict them to higher ships. Sure you get Admirals for less points, but you also have less protection for them.

This is easily solved by making Admirals specific costs rather than increaseing the PL of a ship. Shoot, take it one step further. Rather than making admirals cost 1 Raid point, buy admarils just like you buy ships! Skirmish through Armageddon Admirals! Then, even if you stick that admiral on a skirmish ship, he is still only worth what he would be if he were placed on a War level ship. Can't complain there!

 

[SylvrDragon]

This is easily solved by making Admirals specific costs rather than increaseing the PL of a ship. Shoot, take it one step further. Rather than making admirals cost 1 Raid point, buy admarils just like you buy ships! Skirmish through Armageddon Admirals! Then, even if you stick that admiral on a skirmish ship, he is still only worth what he would be if he were placed on a War level ship. Can't complain there!

I couldn't agree more. I've never liked the Admiral system in this game. It restricts them, and often causes you to over pay for them.