Admiral

[SylvrDragon]

I was wondering, and I know this has probably been brought up before, but I still had to ask. I know that when you purchase an Admiral in a campaign that he must be placed on either the largest ship, or on a ship with the Command trait. But what if you later purchase a larger ship? Do you then have to move the Admiral to that ship? Makes sense on one hand, but it seems dumb to force you to spend RR to move an Admiral. : /

 

[Greg Smith]

No. An admiral in a campaign can be moved to any ship - but when you fight a battle he has to be on the highest level ship.

So if you put a Centauri Admiral on an Octurion and then later buy an Adira, you can leave the Admiral on the Octurion. However if you get a big battle and include both ships, the Admiral has to be switched to the Adira.

 

[l33tpenguin]

That was something I always felt was meh about how Admirals worked. Sheridan was commanding army of light fleets from a white star when minbari war cruisers were present.

That.. and the cost :/ Admiral cost really needs to be changed to something like '1 raid point' regardless of the ship it is on. So, a battle level ship with an admiral would cost 1 battle point + 1 raid point.

Much more balanced

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Even with the abilities of the Admiral in most cases, unless it's a huge battle, you're generally better off with a second ship or a handful of lower priority ones. Plus in terms of a campaign it means that the larger ships really don't make an appearence as even a War level ship suddenly becomes twice as costly and you will want to keep the battles small to avoid potential losses.

Had that problem with the last campaign I ran; the big ships and hence the Admirals, didn't show until the last turn of the campaign when people really didn't care what ships they lost.

 

[Da Boss]

I know that when you purchase an Admiral in a campaign that he must be placed on either the largest ship, or on a ship with the Command trait. : /

A minor point but the place on a ship with the Command Trait is a House rule - normally its the biggest ship only. Its in DR and my House rules compilation but its not official IIRC

 

[H]

ship with command trait would make the most sense, also means some of the command varients might get taken

obvious issue some people would make is that some fleets have raid command ships, some only seem to have it on carriers, when you might not want one, and why the heck does a sharlin not have a command bonus? if ANY ship at all should have it, it's the Sharlin!

 

[Burger]

Dilgar have a skirmish command ship, too... and pentacon rules... very nasty!

 

[SylvrDragon]

I guess I'll bring this up with the group and see what we decide. We already adopted a version of the Admirals listed in the House Rules Compilation. Everyone gets a free Admiral with 2 traits. We' also decided that, for the Campaign, Admirals don't raise the PL of the ship their on. Kinda borrowed from BFG where you can buy "Admirals", called by various names there, but in a Campaign you get a single free one. Makes sense and makes them usable. I know some may yell that this causes balance issues, but everyone has one so it balances its self out that way. As is they're near useless, especially since they have to be on the largest ship.

Oh, as for his placement on a ship. According to Greg, as stated above, he is only required to be on the largest ship in a given battle. So, if I had mine on a White Star GS, I'm running ISA for this campaign, and decided to include my Tara'Lin in the same battle as my Admiral I'd have to move him to the Tara'Lin. Problem with this is that I was under the impression that moving Admirals was done at the end of the turn. Does this mean he can be transferred mid-turn? If so, I'd assume he could only be transferred once per turn.

Oh, and I agree with l33tpenguin. I think being forced to place them on the largest ship is restricting and not entirely fluffy.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The idea that an admiral would be required to transfer his flag from his chosen flag ship to another ship for the duration of one engagement, in which both vessels take part, simply because the other ship is larger, is beyond ludicrous.

Drag DM oR BuShips out of the VaS forum and ask one of them how a real admiral would react to that suggestion...

 

[BenS]

I always understood it as being that the Admiral must be placed on the biggest ship when initially bought. Otherwise it wouldn't include the 5RR points for transfering during campaign.

I think once in the game (and this is the way I'd play it) the Admiral could be transfered to anyship the player wants. Obviously this is likely to be Command varients or main battleships. It makes more sense that the Admiral would begin on the taskforce flagship but if that ship is in dock while the rest of the squadron is fighting he could easily transfer to a smaller more effective fighting vessel. Maybe make it the Admiral can only be placed on Raid ships and above not Skirmish/Patrol.

I also created a House Rule for Commodores which cost 1 Raid point to recruit (none to use in battle) and get 1 trait. However only 1 Commodore OR Admiral can be used in any individual fleet engagement.

 

[SylvrDragon]

The idea that an admiral would be required to transfer his flag from his chosen flag ship to another ship for the duration of one engagement, in which both vessels take part, simply because the other ship is larger, is beyond ludicrous.

Drag DM oR BuShips out of the VaS forum and ask one of them how a real admiral would react to that suggestion...

Ludicrous pretty much sums up the rules regarding the placement of Admirals.

I always understood it as being that the Admiral must be placed on the biggest ship when initially bought. Otherwise it wouldn't include the 5RR points for transfering during campaign.

I think once in the game (and this is the way I'd play it) the Admiral could be transfered to anyship the player wants. Obviously this is likely to be Command varients or main battleships. It makes more sense that the Admiral would begin on the taskforce flagship but if that ship is in dock while the rest of the squadron is fighting he could easily transfer to a smaller more effective fighting vessel. Maybe make it the Admiral can only be placed on Raid ships and above not Skirmish/Patrol.

I also created a House Rule for Commodores which cost 1 Raid point to recruit (none to use in battle) and get 1 trait. However only 1 Commodore OR Admiral can be used in any individual fleet engagement.

I like that. I'll have to keep that in mind for future reference.

 

[BenS]

No worries. I'm stilling gaining interest for my campaign so I haven't playtested the rules to see if they're workable but I like the idea myself.

 

[Ike]

I always understood it as being that the Admiral must be placed on the biggest ship when initially bought. Otherwise it wouldn't include the 5RR points for transfering during campaign.

Admirals cost 1 Battle point in campaign games no matter how big your biggest ship is, it then must be placed on your biggest ship(ties included)

you may latter pay 5RR to transfer it to another ship but it in turn must be on your biggest ship(ties included)

during scenarios your admiral now costs according to whatever ship he is on

never thought of having to switch an admiral in a battle because there was now a bigger ship in the campaign participating in the same fight, seems kind of stupid

 

[l33tpenguin]

I disagree with the whole 'biggest' ship.

Again, Sheridan conducted the whole shadow war while aboard the white star, dispite Sharlins other more powerful vessels being int he fleet.

 

[SylvrDragon]

I disagree with the whole 'biggest' ship.

Again, Sheridan conducted the whole shadow war while aboard the white star, dispite Sharlins other more powerful vessels being int he fleet.

Agreed. That's why my group ruled that, as far as campaigns are concerned, an Admiral must start on the largest ship, but if you pay the 5 RR you are free to transfer him to where ever you want with out restrictions. Just makes sense.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I disagree with the whole 'biggest' ship.

Again, Sheridan conducted the whole shadow war while aboard the white star, dispite Sharlins other more powerful vessels being int he fleet.

Actually he did command that first major fleet engagement against the Shadows from the command deck of a Sharlin. Much of the time he, and Ivanova, commanded from a White Star though.

 

[Shadow Queen]

In a Call to Arms he was on the Victory.

 

[lastbesthope]

I disagree with the whole 'biggest' ship.

Again, Sheridan conducted the whole shadow war while aboard the white star, dispite Sharlins other more powerful vessels being int he fleet.

Not quite he didn't.

He commands and oversees the strike against the Shadows during their attempt at refugee slaughter in "Shadow Dancing" from a Sharlin.

LBH

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I suppose that one of the gameplay reasons for having to be on the biggest ship is the fleetwide admiral traits. If you could put Admirals on smaller ships, in a War 5 you could just stick your admiral on a Skirmish level ship and have all the fleetwide benefits for only 1 Skirmish point.
Whilst I don't like the idea of Admirals being stuck on the largest ship only, I can see problems having otherwise with the current Admirals. Maybe we could even benefit from scrapping th current Admiral rules and starting from scratch?

 

[SylvrDragon]

I suppose that one of the gameplay reasons for having to be on the biggest ship is the fleetwide admiral traits. If you could put Admirals on smaller ships, in a War 5 you could just stick your admiral on a Skirmish level ship and have all the fleetwide benefits for only 1 Skirmish point.
Whilst I don't like the idea of Admirals being stuck on the largest ship only, I can see problems having otherwise with the current Admirals. Maybe we could even benefit from scrapping th current Admiral rules and starting from scratch?

First, that'd make the skip 1 raid point, as it ups the PL of the ship. Second, that leaves your Admiral on a Skirmish ship. Yea, let's see that survive past the first turn. lol As far as I can see, there's no logical or balancing reason to restrict them to higher ships. Sure you get Admirals for less points, but you also have less protection for them.