About AD and rolling 6 to pass shields quark
- Thread starter scuy
- Start date
Stu-- said:
I think we are all considered hardcore gamers, especially by the card game-playing, Euro-style games of non-conflict. I've seen card/Euro gamers look at me cross-eyed when I tried to run an ACTA:SF game at a local "gamers" gathering. You'd have thought I was a leper; one guy who was playing Star Wars card games even expressed some interest and his card-gaming buddies said "Joe, why do you want to play THOSE games"? :? Needless to say his buddies badgered him into not playing... And the second time I advertised for a game, zero responses. So I no longer hang out with that gaming group. I consider them gamer-lite, or beer and pretzel gamers.
So yes there are some deep divisions between casual card/Euro gamers and we, the ones who play those weird hardcore games. And ACTA:SF is an EASY game to learn compared to SFB or Advanced Squad Leader.
One thing that kind of irks me is this: natural 6's can penetrate shields, no matter the strength or the size of the phaser. A Phaser-3 penetrates just as easily as a Phaser-1 or even a Phaser-4 (shudder). I have had a couple of occasions where I had a Fed-BCH boost his shields (30 normal, and he rolled a 15+ shield boost), and became a phaser magnet for every ship in range. The shields didn't even go down, but he was nearly-crippled due to shield penetrations. Something just isn't right about that.
I'd like to propose that natural 6's don't penetrate shields boosted above their normal maximum... you take those 6's and apply it to the above maximum portion of the shield, and then if there is anything left after the "boosted portion" is used up, it penetrates the "normal" shields just fine.
I'd like to propose that natural 6's don't penetrate shields boosted above their normal maximum... you take those 6's and apply it to the above maximum portion of the shield, and then if there is anything left after the "boosted portion" is used up, it penetrates the "normal" shields just fine.
"You also need to figure how much better this makes the Romulans under cloak.........."
Really, they shouldn't be targets at all when under cloak.
I'm not a fan of the 2+ cloak save rule...
It's enough that the model is on the table. Shooting them just makes the cloak seem liek it doesn't work.
And Billclo, I agree - something just isn't 'right' with the shield rule.
In this, they're not just 'leaky' - sometimes (dependant on good rolling) they don't work at all..
Really, they shouldn't be targets at all when under cloak.
I'm not a fan of the 2+ cloak save rule...
It's enough that the model is on the table. Shooting them just makes the cloak seem liek it doesn't work.
And Billclo, I agree - something just isn't 'right' with the shield rule.
In this, they're not just 'leaky' - sometimes (dependant on good rolling) they don't work at all..
Stu-- said:
Sounds like you need to re-write the whole game to make it fit what you want.........not a bad thing - but you need to work it all through with the consequencies on every other part of the system.
Cloaking is as is to fit SFU - plus if the cloaks were total invulnability - you need to up the Romulans points hugely.
Leaky - well thats kinda the point isn't it - a lucky shot (or anylsing the freqencies etc gets through - most don't............
I don't recall being able to shoot at cloaked Romulans in SFB.
I do remember we used to play without them on the table until they decloaked (leading to the occasional hilarious 'oops' moment) and because they could do naff all whilst cloaked it didn't really matter.
But yeah nothing wrong with leaky shields. That's fine and fun, but the weirdness of 6's at long range makes it feel strange in the way it's been done. That's all.
Several good proposals have been made to fix it.
I do remember we used to play without them on the table until they decloaked (leading to the occasional hilarious 'oops' moment) and because they could do naff all whilst cloaked it didn't really matter.
But yeah nothing wrong with leaky shields. That's fine and fun, but the weirdness of 6's at long range makes it feel strange in the way it's been done. That's all.
Several good proposals have been made to fix it.
Stu-- said:
I think the standard way in SFB was to double the range and add 5. So you COULD fire at them, but it was frequently an exercise in futility. I preferred the hidden movement (ala, sub-hunt), but most of my opponents didn't like that rule.
I can live with leaky shields, but it can result in some situations that just leave you scratching your head...like huh?
I don't know about significantly.
You'll hit the same number of times but do 8% less internal damage.
So for every ten shots with ph-1 you still hit 66% of the time, but penetrate with only 8% of those hits.
And it works as normal at short range.
But yes, there's /some/ devaluation there.
You'll hit the same number of times but do 8% less internal damage.
So for every ten shots with ph-1 you still hit 66% of the time, but penetrate with only 8% of those hits.
And it works as normal at short range.
But yes, there's /some/ devaluation there.
I think the penetration rule was put in place to reflect the different shield facings in SFB and Federation Commander. ACTA SF uses a single, unified shield to stop hits. In SFB and FC fleet battles it can be difficult to keep a down shield facing away from ALL enemy ships at once. Through skillful maneuver one tries to fire through the enemy's down shields, thereby bypassing the shields entirely. I don't think it is a case of a "special shield penetrating" technobabble. It is simply trying to represent the way shields/damage/internals work in the SFU using the ACTA rules set.
Exactly what dix said. I think the rule works fine as it is. You can point out some extreme circumstances where a shield is blown up before half its shields are taken down, and you might get a single ship like that in every game you play, but its not every single ship in every game.
instead of having 6 difference facings and 6 different shield values we have 1 shield value for all facings, an abstraction of the directional shield generators. Rolling to penetrate the shields represents the chance that the shields you are firing against are weaker than the rest of the shields around the ship.
Now lets talk about chess, the knight is totally broken!
instead of having 6 difference facings and 6 different shield values we have 1 shield value for all facings, an abstraction of the directional shield generators. Rolling to penetrate the shields represents the chance that the shields you are firing against are weaker than the rest of the shields around the ship.
Now lets talk about chess, the knight is totally broken!
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
I think of the situation this way...
In the newer ST Series (TNG etc) a big deal gets made about the "shield modulation frequency" and how if you know that you can tune the photon torpedoes and your phasers to match it and pass right through to get direct hits on the hull.
So, any weapon that rolls a 'natural 6' simply happens to be a weapon that was at the proper frequency/phasing/whatever when it reached the shields and passed through to the hull.
In the newer ST Series (TNG etc) a big deal gets made about the "shield modulation frequency" and how if you know that you can tune the photon torpedoes and your phasers to match it and pass right through to get direct hits on the hull.
So, any weapon that rolls a 'natural 6' simply happens to be a weapon that was at the proper frequency/phasing/whatever when it reached the shields and passed through to the hull.
Just a polite suggestion lets not use a ip example of a out of license effect to explain why things work in ACTASF.
Bottom line is shields overload and buckle and sometimes sections of the shield collapse allowing fire to pass straight through to the hull. More dramatic to simply say you got the @#%$ kicked out of you than to say somehow you got lucky.
Bottom line is shields overload and buckle and sometimes sections of the shield collapse allowing fire to pass straight through to the hull. More dramatic to simply say you got the @#%$ kicked out of you than to say somehow you got lucky.
GamerDude
Cosmic Mongoose
ok, then let me give the 'silly, terrified of copyright in the shadows' explanation.Rambler said:
In the original series photon torpedoes and phasar blasts did slip past the shields and hit the hull. With the almost nonexistent budget for special effects (and the lack of technology to do them properly) other methods had to be used to depict these hits. Note: the following effects were used even while shields were still functioning, the only logical explanation for hull hits with shields still functioning is the occasional shot got through.
To depict these hull hits hits techniques ranged from simply shown using anything from the "shake the camera while everyone tosses themselves around the set" to the "consoles exploding in showers of sparks".
And of note, has anyone ever really counted the number of times in either TOS or TAS the Enterprise took a hit *after* they lost their shields (through the location that lost them, not against another location that still had shields)?
That work any better?
