AAR - Federation vs. Romulans.

[logical_proof]

So we got our first game in today with Feds and Romulans, Let me set the mood.

We had 750 points at our disposal

Federation: 1 x CC, 2 x NCL, 2 x FF
Romulans: 1 x KRC, 1 x KR, 2 x KF5R, and 1 x Skyhawk

Turn 1: The two fleets started approximately 40 inches apart with a moon and a planet 8 inches from the Feds starting location. The Romulans started out cloaked and proceeded to split into two groups, The KRC, Skyhawk, and a KF5R heading port, and the KR and a KF5R heading starboard. Nothing much happened here as we were so far apart that the Feds early maneuvers were just getting the feeling for his ships as there was nothing to shoot at yet.

Turn 2 thru 4: Turn two saw the Romulan player continue to set up the pincher on the Fed fleet while the Feds regrouped, by the end of turn four the Feds were in a straight line. From the Romulans perspective it was an NCL followed two inches later by the CC followed 2 inches later by the second NCL and then the two FF's were approximately four inches away in base contact. The Romulans had positioned themselves in two groups both around 8 inches from the Fed fleet with their forward arcs facing their opponents, the KR group nearest the frigates and the KRC group near the NCL. Over the course of the approach the Federation player got extremely lucky and got two critical hits on the KF5R with the KR group, delirium and crew.

Turn 5: the Romulan player won initiative and used this time to strike with the KR, short of a High energy turn the Federation player could not move any ships into the location where the kR decloaked (2 inches from one of the FF's) so he moved his NCL forward 6 inches, The Romulan player decloaked the KF5R exactly eight inches behind the NCL and centerlined it. During the fire fight the KR managed to knock the FF down to seven internals (this was a bit disappointing because in FedComm 2 full plasma S's against a frigate would pretty much doom it, in this case I couldn't even get a cripple) while the KR took a nice bit of shield damage including an engine crit which it would repair at the end of the turn. When all was said and done the Romulan ships had received some minor damage and the Feds had lost a lot of shields but not much else.

Turn 6 (Or, "The Mighty Hood Goes Down... and so does the Kestral"): turn six the fed player decided to sacrifice an NCL to get a kill shot, the Romulan lost initiative and decided to take the bait. The KR group decided that since it's shields we're shredded and it had no weapons to fire it should make like a tree and get outta there so the KF5R and the KR both used the all power to engines special action and tried to boogie past the fed fleet, the KR maneuvered well enough, but the puny Romulan destroyer got chased by two angr fed frigates with grudges. On the other side of the board the Romulans decloaked the KRC and KF5R 2 inches off the port side of the Fed NCL used as bait, unfortunately for the Fed player he couldn't bring his big heavy cruiser and second NCL into overload range so he got to 8 inches and attempted to intensify his defensive fire, only the hood succeeded in the crew quality check.

Turn 6 attack phase - The Romulan KRC was able to hit the Fed CC with 38 hits with 8 dice... That's a lot folks, but it wasn't enough. All of the combined phaser fire from the Feds completely stripped m
The KRC shields and with photons it was killed with 3 negative points, the KF5R fired its two plasma F's and phaser 1's at the hood and they sealed the ships fate, it died with 2 minus points.

Aftermath: the Romulans down to one light cruiser with heavily damaged shields, minimal heavy plasma and facing three heavy cruisers worth of photons decided that it might be best to run away with their tails between their legs.

Impressions: we all enjoyed the game very much had many laughs, a few frustrated die rolls (the Federation player rolled 3 sixes on a long range phaser shot followed by 3 ones on the hit table), and found potential in the game. Some ideas we formed were that plasma is indeed too weak (with the more conservative play option the hood would have only been crippled, since the fed only defended with 4 phasers), the cloak was very dangerous at least this early in the games lifespan, drones are incredibly useful against races with absolutely NO drone defense (plasma D's on the one ship cannot be counted on), ships with reload are HEAVILY penalized by only getting one special action, and finally the Agile trait on the KR, D6, D7, and KRC just seems like too much.

TL;DR, Play Klingons, awesome front shields, lots of drones, no reload, agile heavy cruisers, ADD 2 on lots of ships.

 

[billclo]

The only error I can see right off the top of my head is decloaking that KF5R 8" from the NCL. Plas-F aren't worth diddly at that range. With Plas-F you have to fire at really close range (sub-4").

 

[MongooseMatt]

TL;DR, Play Klingons, awesome front shields, lots of drones, no reload, agile heavy cruisers, ADD 2 on lots of ships.

But no knock out blow from the really heavy weapons, and phasers tend to be concentrated in narrow arcs. The ADD is nice, but you will fail soon enough and then that lack of phaser coverage will bite you in the bum.

You also mentioned weak plasmas - keep working at it. Disruptors are the 'lazy man's' (lazy Klingons?) weapon that just need spraying in the general direction of the enemy. COmbined with phaser fire, they will wear an enemy down nicely. However, nothing beats a knock out punch from photons (overloaded or just used in number) or massed plasma. The Devastating trait counts for a lot and the total damage in one attack is very convincing. However, you do have to work at it to get a shot off at best effect

 

[Nomad]

Good AAR, thanks.

The only error I can see right off the top of my head is decloaking that KF5R 8" from the NCL. Plas-F aren't worth diddly at that range. With Plas-F you have to fire at really close range (sub-4").

Sorry, I don't understand that.

AFAIK Plasma-Fs do 2AD out to 8", 1AD out to 12" and no damage beyond. Decloaking at 8" - where *all* plasmas hit for full effect - looks like a sound tactic to me.

If the enemy has unfired drones, it's probably a good idea to keep some phasers back to defend against them, otherwise you're relying on tractors, which can be iffy (and can be overwhelmed even by the Federations's pitiful handful of drone launches).

 

[billclo]

Good AAR, thanks.

The only error I can see right off the top of my head is decloaking that KF5R 8" from the NCL. Plas-F aren't worth diddly at that range. With Plas-F you have to fire at really close range (sub-4").

Sorry, I don't understand that.

AFAIK Plasma-Fs do 2AD out to 8", 1AD out to 12" and no damage beyond. Decloaking at 8" - where *all* plasmas hit for full effect - looks like a sound tactic to me.

After looking at the rule again, you are correct. I was thinking plasmas lost 3AD at half range for some reason. So nevermind...

 

[Stumonster]

Sounds like a fun battle!

One thing: On the roll of 3 long range phasers . . .they would still do damage even after rolling a 1 on the attack table because they have the Precise trait, correct?

The precise trait make Phasers fairly nasty when they roll on the attack table. You always get at least a solid hit, and get critical hits on a roll or 5 or 6.

In the games we have played, plasma torpedoes really do a lot of damage. Maybe we are doing something wrong. But here is an example:

A KRC fires 2 plasma S (4 dice each) and 2 plasma F (2 dice each) at a CC. It defends with 4 phaser 1s and 2 phaser 3's. (Note if any of these weapons fired on attack they are not available to defend, or if the ship has not attacked then when it does these are not available to attack.) The CC player would then nominate which torpedo he is firing each weapon at. In this case he fires 4 phaser 1's at one plasma S and the two phaser 3's at the other plasma S. He then roll to hit for each phaser. Lets say 3 phaser 1's hit, as do both phaser 3's. The first plasma torpedo would cause 1 AD damage (4 -3 hits = 1) and the second would do 2 AD damage (4 -2 hits = 2), and both plasma F's do 2 dice each as they were not targeted. So total would be 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 7 attack dice. With even an average roll you should get 21 points of damage with a max of 42.

Does that sound correct?

Thanks!

 

[Da Boss]

Interesting report

Several things occur:

Why did the Romulan Player decloak when he lost iniative and hence let the Fed player have the advantage both in movement and most importantly firing first.?

This statement makes no sense if its regarding the Romulan fleet:
"drones are incredibly useful against races with absolutely NO drone defense"

The Romulans ships have the best drone defense when cloaked - they are Totally Immune to them!!
When decloaked they have tractor beams (Basically 4+ to destroy a drone per TB used) - the Skyhawk alone has 4! the KR 3 and the KRC 5 of them and the KRC also has Anti Drone through its Plasma D, which means it can use the arc thats not firing to provide a defense mechanism.

Lastly terrain was a bit sparse for a normal ACTA game.

 

[Nomad]

Sounds like a fun battle!

One thing: On the roll of 3 long range phasers . . .they would still do damage even after rolling a 1 on the attack table because they have the Precise trait, correct?

Yes

A KRC fires ....max of 42.

Does that sound correct?

Thanks!

Looks right to me. IDF! from several ships is your friend.

 

[billclo]

Ordinarily I would complain that it should take 2 hits from a phaser to reduce a plasma torpedo 1 AD, but since the plasmas arm are able to fire every 2 turns and not 3...I won't.

But normally, a full barrage of 2 Plas-S + 2 Plas-F normally leaves the target's shields gone and the ship badly crippled. But again, it takes 3 turns to arm those plasmas...so the effect should be greater.

I'm not saying that this was the case in this game the original poster is describing, but I've noticed a phenomenon in other games wherein players don't concentrate the fire of several ships onto one target, instead preferring to attack "their target" exclusively. This may be more fun for those wanting to be able to claim a "kill", but it results in them losing more often. Kill or cripple a ship, rather than damaging 2 or 3.

I encounter this in Battletech constantly. I am forever telling my lancemates, concentrate the whole lance's fire on one target, darn it. They rarely listen though.

 

[MongooseMatt]

This statement makes no sense if its regarding the Romulan fleet:
"drones are incredibly useful against races with absolutely NO drone defense"

I think I know what he means, as Drones are my favourite anti-Romulan weapon.

You are right, they are competely immune when cloaked and their larger ships, at least, have plenty of defences when flying around uncloaked (the likes of Snipes and Battle Hawks are easily overwhelmed though).

The problem occurs when the Romulan player tries to recloak a ship. For a turn, he is extremely vulnerable to drones. When cloaking (rather than being cloaked), he can perform _no_ defensive fire (and look up the terminology we use for tractors - they count as defensive fire against drones). He gets a 4+ save, sure, but that is applied against each hit, not each drone, so even a single drone will probably spring mulitple rolls, many of which he will (hopefully) fail.

A good amount of drones present on the table can force a Romulan _not_ to recloak even if they are never fired. Even if he is cloaking and recloaking in waves to suppress your phasers (with the plasma torpedoes), your drones will still be free to hit recloaking ships.

 

[billclo]

This statement makes no sense if its regarding the Romulan fleet:
"drones are incredibly useful against races with absolutely NO drone defense"

The problem occurs when the Romulan player tries to recloak a ship. For a turn, he is extremely vulnerable to drones. When cloaking (rather than being cloaked), he can perform _no_ defensive fire (and look up the terminology we use for tractors - they count as defensive fire against drones). He gets a 4+ save, sure, but that is applied against each hit, not each drone, so even a single drone will probably spring mulitple rolls, many of which he will (hopefully) fail.

A good amount of drones present on the table can force a Romulan _not_ to recloak even if they are never fired. Even if he is cloaking and recloaking in waves to suppress your phasers (with the plasma torpedoes), your drones will still be free to hit recloaking ships.

Good observations, Matt.

I think one viable option may be to use any available blocking terrain to block drone fire while re-cloaking. This is risky though. Dodge behind that planet, and HOPE it works.

Possibly a nearby friendly ship could use Intensify Defensive fire to help the cloaking ship get away. MAYBE.

Another option might be to use All Power to Engines to open the range beyond 35, but that' iffy as well.

 

[Da Boss]

This statement makes no sense if its regarding the Romulan fleet:
"drones are incredibly useful against races with absolutely NO drone defense"

I think I know what he means, as Drones are my favourite anti-Romulan weapon.

You are right, they are competely immune when cloaked and their larger ships, at least, have plenty of defences when flying around uncloaked (the likes of Snipes and Battle Hawks are easily overwhelmed though).

The problem occurs when the Romulan player tries to recloak a ship. For a turn, he is extremely vulnerable to drones. When cloaking (rather than being cloaked), he can perform _no_ defensive fire (and look up the terminology we use for tractors - they count as defensive fire against drones). He gets a 4+ save, sure, but that is applied against each hit, not each drone, so even a single drone will probably spring mulitple rolls, many of which he will (hopefully) fail.

A good amount of drones present on the table can force a Romulan _not_ to recloak even if they are never fired. Even if he is cloaking and recloaking in waves to suppress your phasers (with the plasma torpedoes), your drones will still be free to hit recloaking ships.

All good points - however a 4+ save is still better than no defence

 

[MongooseMatt]

I think one viable option may be to use any available blocking terrain to block drone fire while re-cloaking. This is risky though. Dodge behind that planet, and HOPE it works.

True. Even better if it is a small planet, as you can then use the free 6" move to pop back in front of it when you decloak ('ah ha, you thought I went behind the planet when in fact I was here all along!'), hopefully just when he is crossing the planet's orbit to chase after your elusive shadow...

Possibly a nearby friendly ship could use Intensify Defensive fire to help the cloaking ship get away. MAYBE.

You'll rarely have enough ships to do that - the others will be too busy cloaking/recharging plasmas/attacking themselves

 

[MongooseMatt]

All good points - however a 4+ save is still better than no defence

It is. Though it can sometimes still feel like you are sitting there with your winky in the void.

 

[Nomad]

Even if he is cloaking and recloaking in waves to suppress your phasers (with the plasma torpedoes), your drones will still be free to hit recloaking ships.

Aww. I was rather hoping they wouldn't notice that.

 

[Nerroth]

I encounter this in Battletech constantly. I am forever telling my lancemates, concentrate the whole lance's fire on one target, darn it. They rarely listen though.

Maybe they are just busy trying to get used to the rules of Zellbrigen they'll eventually be obliged to follow once they get taken as bondsmen, quiaff?


Actually, one thing I notice in the reports so far is a relative lack of players fielding Hawk-series forces. I guess it is down in no small part to mini availability, but the Kestrels and Eagles seem to be enjoying the lion's share of on-table play at this point - and thus, having the biggest impact on how new players are judging the Romulan fleet as a whole.

Are people just not interested in the Hawks, or are they simply working with what they can get to hand?

 

[logical_proof]

It is simply a matter of cost. At 170 points I can get a plasma S and 2 F's, or 2 plasma S's for 165 points, plus the shield bonus. Why would I take a sparrow hawk?

Matthew was correct in that I was speaking of during cloak drones auto hit, which isn't typically the way it works in Star Fleet battles, but it IS EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS IN FEDCOMM. It is fair, but in a fleet game my ship is gonna get wrecked, even 10 drones will be an average of 15 hits.

Someone said the plasma was 21 to 42 points of damage, but that isn't accurate, it would be true to say that 7 AD of plasma is 7 to 42 points of damage, either way invoking the statistical outliers to emphasize the strength or weakness of a given weapon is misleading. A Romulan ship with 8 AD of plasma would be right to expect 24 hits, if none is negated.

I still feel that having Reload a special action is incredibly devastating to empires that require it. Yes Klingons don't have any knockout punch, but 2 turns of disruptor fire is very nice and prevents you from getting caught with your pants down.

TOTAL SIDE NOTE ON THE DEVASTATING TRAIT: friends played a game after I left and a lucky photon roll of 3 sixes that landed 3 Dilithium crits destroyed an uncrippled C-8 dreadnought. Take that you bearded sash wearing villains. EPIC!

 

[Iron Domokun]

If you're cloaked, drones cannot be fired at your ship at all. If you're fading in, you get a 4+ Stealth save, so 10AD of drones would score, on average 3.5 * 10 / 2, or 17.5 damage.

Also, 8 AD of plasma is 3.5 * 8 hits on average, or 28 hits. Which isn't bad.

If the Hawk series are a bad bargain in comparison to the KRs, then perhaps the point values need to be adjusted. Either reduce the Hawk points or beef up the KR values, or both. I think the Klingon fore arc shielding rule is very good, perhaps it's undercosted.

 

[Finlos]

It is simply a matter of cost. At 170 points I can get a plasma S and 2 F's, or 2 plasma S's for 165 points, plus the shield bonus. Why would I take a sparrow hawk?

The sparrowhawk has a slightly better phaser array as well as being slightly tougher. Within 8" both ships get 8 AD worth of plasma. I don't think the difference is as contrasting as is portrayed.

 

[billclo]

I encounter this in Battletech constantly. I am forever telling my lancemates, concentrate the whole lance's fire on one target, darn it. They rarely listen though.

Maybe they are just busy trying to get used to the rules of Zellbrigen they'll eventually be obliged to follow once they get taken as bondsmen, quiaff?


Actually, one thing I notice in the reports so far is a relative lack of players fielding Hawk-series forces. I guess it is down in no small part to mini availability, but the Kestrels and Eagles seem to be enjoying the lion's share of on-table play at this point - and thus, having the biggest impact on how new players are judging the Romulan fleet as a whole.

Are people just not interested in the Hawks, or are they simply working with what they can get to hand?

Aff. While I am only a casual Battletech player, I get the gist of what you are saying. But these were Inner Sphere vs Inner Sphere battles, no Clan involved.

If the Hawk series are a bad bargain in comparison to the KRs, then perhaps the point values need to be adjusted. Either reduce the Hawk points or beef up the KR values, or both. I think the Klingon fore arc shielding rule is very good, perhaps it's undercosted.

There may be something to this.

Warning *** brief foray into F&E rules ***
Unfortunately we are not using any rules that help shape battleforce formation. For example, in F&E, the Romulans are frequently forced to hoard and protect their marginally superior KR-series ships because they are effectively irreplaceable. The Klingons rarely have the opportunity or desire to sell them more KRs. So the Roms get stuck using their domestically produced Sparrowhawks and their inferior Skyhawks more than they might like. But they've got little choice in the matter.

Whereas in ACTASF you get to pick whatever you want, regardless of actual availability. This can be a good thing in that it lets players do what they want, but people will gravitate towards what they perceive as the best ships. If actual availability (or unavailability) isn't a factor, this is what we get.

Maybe the Sparrowhawk/new series need a little more oomph to encourage their use?