A few newbie questions about rules and situations

[ZiCold]

Hi! I didnt find any thread where I can post my questions, so I decided to create a new one. I encountered some situations which I dont know how to rule right (or better).

1. 2 PC vs 2 NPC CLOSE (melee) combat. One of PC are downed. Another PC should help him with medic skill. In DnD there will be attack of opportunity, but in Traveller there are no such rules. But in reality u cant help another fighter during fight (enemies will just kill you). How should I rule it?

2. PC charges NPC with Boarding Axe. This NPC has SMG in hands and make some shots while PC is charghing. But when PC enter in close/personal fight, how NPC should defend himself if he is still holding his SMG in hands? Should does he use Melee (unarmed) or Melee (mace)? He has no melee weapon.

UPD. Fixed questions to remove misunderstanding. I didnt fix (mace), but it should be (bludgeon) ofc.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Hi! I didnt find any thread where I can post my questions, so I decided to create a new one. I encountered some situations which I dont know how to rule right (or better).

1. 2 PC vs 2 NPC combat. One of PC are downed. Another PC should help him with medic skill. In DnD there will be attack of opportunity, but in Traveller there are no such rules. But in reality u cant help another fighter during fight (enemies will just kill you). How should I rule it?

2. PC charges NPC with Boarding Axe. This NPC has SMG in hands and make some shots while PC is charghing. But when PC enter in close/personal fight, how NPC should defend himself if he is still holding his SMG in hands? Should does he use Melee (unarmed) or Melee (mace)?

1. How long does it take to heal someone?
2. How long does it take to swap SMG for mace?

 

[CosmicGamer]

1. 2 PC vs 2 NPC combat. One of PC are downed. Another PC should help him with medic skill. In DnD there will be attack of opportunity, but in Traveller there are no such rules. But in reality u cant help another fighter during fight (enemies will just kill you). How should I rule it?

For ranged combat, I don't see an issue. A target is a target and unless you are moving or doing some other action I don;t thing performing medical care, repairing a vehicle or actually firing a weapon changes the chance to hit (unless the opponent is dodging your incoming fire).

It's up to the player/character to role play if they want to be out in the open taking fire or try to drag the wounded to cover.

For melee attacks I can see your point if someone is totally ignoring the attack. But the GM can always adjust the difficulty level of the task to fit the situation.

2. PC charges NPC with Boarding Axe. This NPC has SMG in hands and make some shots while PC is charghing. But when PC enter in close/personal fight, how NPC should defend himself if he is still holding his SMG in hands? Should does he use Melee (unarmed) or Melee (mace)?

Off the top of my head, Melee skill for defense is only applicable to parrying (or opposed unarmed if grappling). If using the SMG as a club/stick/mace like improvised weapon, I'd call it Melee (Bludgeon) - not Melee (mace).

 

[ZiCold]

1. How long does it take to heal someone?
2. How long does it take to swap SMG for mace?

1. Combat round. Question is about first aid in combat situation.
2. He has no mace, only his weapon.

For ranged combat, I don't see an issue. A target is a target and unless you are moving or doing some other action I don't thing performing medical care, repairing a vehicle or actually firing a weapon changes the chance to hit (unless the opponent is dodging your incoming fire).
It's up to the player/character to role play if they want to be out in the open taking fire or try to drag the wounded to cover.
For melee attacks I can see your point if someone is totally ignoring the attack. But the GM can always adjust the difficulty level of the task to fit the situation.

Yeah, I forgot to point it, I was talking about melee situation - tight place about 4.5x6 meters.

Off the top of my head, Melee skill for defense is only applicable to parrying (or opposed unarmed if grappling). If using the SMG as a club/stick/mace like improvised weapon, I'd call it Melee (Bludgeon) - not Melee (mace).

Bludgeon, thanks, I made a mistake. But if NPC has no Melee (Bludgeon) skill according to rules he should make checks as he has no melee skill at all. But it's not really right, cause he has weapon in his hands and it's more effective to fight with metal weapon in hands than with empty hands.

 

[Galadrion]

Hm. How I would rule it...

1. Assisting PC is probably crouched down next to the wounded PC. Definitely not dodging, probably not going to be very effective at parrying, so I wouldn't allow those. If it was ranged combat, I might allow a defensive DM for being a smaller target, or I might not - likely not at closer ranges. But since this is melee combat (as specified in the question) I would say no defensive bonus. I'd probably give the attackers a one-degree-of-difficulty bonus (+2) on the attack roll, because the medic is immobile and distracted. (A 2-point bonus is pretty significant, particularly in melee combat. With no other modifiers, it changes the target from 8+ (a 5-in-12 chance) to 6+ (a 13-in-18 chance). If the attackers already get some other bonus - from high attributes, say - the shift is even more significant. It's not a straight-line gain, due to probability distributions along a bell curve.)

2. Parrying a boarding axe with a submachine gun? I would adjudicate it as similar to parrying with a rifle, but with a one-degree-of-difficulty shift against the defender - a SMG is smaller and less suitable for parrying. You're less likely to be able to block the axe with some part of the gun not covered by parts of your hands - ouch! But honestly, in this situation, parrying isn't your real defense. Your real defense is the number of bullets you (hopefully) hit the axeman with as he's charging. If he's down and staining the deckplates with vital fluids, he's not going to be doing unfriendly things to you with his axe...

A smart gun-bunny isn't going to try to parry an axe with a SMG. He's going to dodge, try to put some space between himself and the too-close wannabe Conan, and take a few more shots.

 

[CosmicGamer]

if NPC has no Melee (Bludgeon) skill according to rules he should make checks as he has no melee skill at all. But it's not really right, cause he has weapon in his hands and it's more effective to fight with metal weapon in hands than with empty hands.

The rules do make a improvised bludgeon 2d6-2 damage thus "more effective" than a unarmed 1d6 attack.

Note also the ranges and DMs on page 65.
A boxer might drop the gun and move right in to personal combat range to pummel their opponent and not give them room to swing their melee weapon.
Someone totally unskilled in any melee would want that unarmed foe just outside personal range where the weapon has better reach (+0 DM vs unarmed -1 DM) and damage.

 

[ZiCold]

The rules do make a improvised bludgeon 2d6-2 damage thus "more effective" than a unarmed 1d6 attack.

Oh, I didnt notice that, thx! I should re-read rulebook....

Note also the ranges and DMs on page 65.
A boxer might drop the gun and move right in to personal combat range to pummel their opponent and not give them room to swing their melee weapon.
Someone totally unskilled in any melee would want that unarmed foe just outside personal range where the weapon has better reach (+0 DM vs unarmed -1 DM) and damage.

Interesting remark, but I still cant get rid of attack of opportunity when u try to enter to personal range (same square). Or may be I should consider avoiding it as part of the melee skill.

 

[ZiCold]

Hm. How I would rule it...

1. Assisting PC is probably crouched down next to the wounded PC. Definitely not dodging, probably not going to be very effective at parrying, so I wouldn't allow those. If it was ranged combat, I might allow a defensive DM for being a smaller target, or I might not - likely not at closer ranges. But since this is melee combat (as specified in the question) I would say no defensive bonus. I'd probably give the attackers a one-degree-of-difficulty bonus (+2) on the attack roll, because the medic is immobile and distracted. (A 2-point bonus is pretty significant, particularly in melee combat. With no other modifiers, it changes the target from 8+ (a 5-in-12 chance) to 6+ (a 13-in-18 chance). If the attackers already get some other bonus - from high attributes, say - the shift is even more significant. It's not a straight-line gain, due to probability distributions along a bell curve.)

Nice ruling, but I think more about more real decision. Either PC will try kill all enemies and than help his partner or he will try to move himself and partner's body to more comfort position for medic help. Anyway thank you for your answer.

2. Parrying a boarding axe with a submachine gun? I would adjudicate it as similar to parrying with a rifle, but with a one-degree-of-difficulty shift against the defender - a SMG is smaller and less suitable for parrying. You're less likely to be able to block the axe with some part of the gun not covered by parts of your hands - ouch! But honestly, in this situation, parrying isn't your real defense. Your real defense is the number of bullets you (hopefully) hit the axeman with as he's charging. If he's down and staining the deckplates with vital fluids, he's not going to be doing unfriendly things to you with his axe...

A smart gun-bunny isn't going to try to parry an axe with a SMG. He's going to dodge, try to put some space between himself and the too-close wannabe Conan, and take a few more shots.

Last sentence is the way I went in my last fight for NPC and it was quite good. I'm not so strong in different weapons types, so I will rule it as improvised weapon for simplicity.

 

[CosmicGamer]

I still cant get rid of attack of opportunity when u try to enter to personal range (same square). Or may be I should consider avoiding it as part of the melee skill.

I think it a bit silly to just let someone beat on you while doing nothing. Maybe your Gandhi or laying unconscious?

That aside, like I said earlier, the GM can always set the difficulty level of the task. An example from the rules is

A routine task is trivial for a trained professional, and relatively easy even for an amateur. A routine task might be hitting a prone victim in melee

The rules also say

a prone character being attacked at Personal range grants a +2 DM to attacks against him

No, you don't add them together. It's just two ways of saying the same thing - it's 2 points easier.

Perhaps someone totally ignoring an attacker in personal range would make the attack easy; be a 4 point DM? It's up to the GM. In your play group go ahead and call it an attack of opportunity DM if that helps.

 

[DivineWrath]

1. 2 PC vs 2 NPC CLOSE (melee) combat. One of PC are downed. Another PC should help him with medic skill. In DnD there will be attack of opportunity, but in Traveller there are no such rules. But in reality u cant help another fighter during fight (enemies will just kill you). How should I rule it?

In DnD, depending on the version of the game, you could get a lot of attacks. In 3.0/3.5/pathfinder you could get up to 4 attacks per round (with high attack bonus) + multi-weapon fighting + attacks of opportunity + cleave + additional attacks from magic (like haste), and so on. This game isn't DnD, so try not to worry so much about not having many attacks.

 

[AndrewW]

In DnD, depending on the version of the game, you could get a lot of attacks. In 3.0/3.5/pathfinder you could get up to 4 attacks per round (with high attack bonus) + multi-weapon fighting + attacks of opportunity + cleave + additional attacks from magic (like haste), and so on. This game isn't DnD, so try not to worry so much about not having many attacks.

Weapon of Speed...

 

[Mytholder]

Applying First Aid with a Medic test takes 1-6 *minutes*. A combat round is about six seconds. You can bring that time down by accepting a -2DM to your roll, presumably by using some high-tech slap-patch type combat dressing on the wound.

 

[ZiCold]

Applying First Aid with a Medic test takes 1-6 *minutes*. A combat round is about six seconds. You can bring that time down by accepting a -2DM to your roll, presumably by using some high-tech slap-patch type combat dressing on the wound.

Thx for it note. I thought it will take 1 combat round, but Combat Rules section is reffering to Medic skill page, so yeah we should adjust defficulty accordingly.
But it's interesting that medikit in armor options apply first aid automatically.

 

[Reynard]

Sometimes a situation is a bad situation. In the one you describe, it may be better to deal with the opposition first rather than performing Multiple Actions (CR pg.51) or Reactions to attacks (CR pg. 61), all of which impose penalties to the Medic task.

Attack of Opportunity for defending from attacks has a Traveller equivalent if you want a homebrew solution. Back in 1979, GDW created SNAPSHOT for Traveller tabletop combat and I believe that's where ship deck plans originated. One rule is Adjacency:

"Regardless of action point totals, and of whether a character has already moved or expended all of his action points, a character has the ability to defend himself.
At any time, if an enemy character enters a square which is adjacent to the square containing a character, that character is allowed a snap-attack in self defense. Snap-attacks are explained later. Such a snap-attack may be made with any weapon available to the character, and it may be made without any cost in action points."

The explanation section for snap-attack says the attack has a -2 penalty and the weapon must be ready.

As to your other question, I remember stories about Vietnam era combat training. The M-16 has a bayonet attachment but never really makes use of it. Soldiers were told that if the enemy is that close to you, turn the gun around and use it as a club. A pistol also becomes a small club too.