A couple of questions re Hawkmoon

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

Yes, I'm amost certain that a Granbretanian would prefer dealing with even a Labourer Granbretanian, rather than a Frog (or any other stripe of national slur).

Of course dealing with rich foreign nobes might be less painful than with other untermenschen (used in it's pre-20th century meaning) though.

A piece of trivia for any curious Americans....

W.O.G.S. is what the dock hands in Port Said had written on the backs of their jackets - it stands for "Worker On Government Ship". The fact that they were all naturally native (i.e. dark skinned) Egyptians is why johnny-foreigners were all called "wogs" by us Brits.

Regards

 

[dave-the-lost]

My two coppers on the maps. Moorcock never says precisely where anything is. The city and other place names are based on pre-Tragic Millenium names, but may not all be associated with the exact same geographic locations. Places have been destroyed and rebuilt since our time (assuming Hawkmoon's Earth and ours are the same). Also chartography is not an exact science without mapping satelites etc. It is quite possible that some features are accidentally wrongly placed. Finally it has been the practice almost since maps were invented to deliberately include errors for a number of purposes. These range from misleading others to spotting unathorized duplications of your map (if it includes your errors it must be a copy)

In short use or correct the "errors" on the maps as you see fit, and if the players complain sick some zombies on them.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Dear All,

Of course there is the "real world" answer - previous editions had US and French cartographers with poor (or no) knowledge of UK geography.

But Mongoose should have known better.

Regards

 

[Sabbak]

Remember that the Beast Orders are only a small part of the Granbretan nation (although the only section that other Europeans will likely come into contact with). Most Granbretanians are members of the Freemen, Labourers and Guildsmen classes.

Even though I disagree with this opinion (mainly because of many years forging my own picture of the Hawkmoon world), this point to an interesting question.

* First the disagreement:
I have never read anywere in Moorcock's novels that most Granbretanians are freemen, labourers and so on. On the opposite! For what I can recall Granbretanians were allways depicted as beastmen wearing masks. Of course, you can be a beastman from the Order of... let's say the "Pidgeon" who are the "cook" and "canteen responsibles" of this twisted society...
As far as I know either in the Novel or in the french supplements published the only "grabretanians" NOT wearing masks are
1) slaves (not considered as GB in fact) and
2) outcasts thrown away to the dustbin of the GB society: the suburbs of Londra.

Remember that Granbretan is considered as the cancer or parasite nation of Hawkmoon's Europe. They PRODUCE nothing, they STEAL what they need.

Of course, I haven't read the new Hawkmoon rulebook in details for now (and I've just received my Granbretan copy today!)... so perhaps Mongoose has chosen to adapt things differently...

Oh, and another disagreement!
;-)

Never leaving the country they would be pretty au fait with Granbretanian geography but hopeless on anything "foreign".

If there would be any of these kind of "labourer class", I would be tempted to compare them with uneducated peasants of the Middle Age. In this vision I would rewrite your sentence this way: "never leaving their FARM or FARMING CAMP, they would be pretty au fait :wink: with LOCAL geography but hopeless on anything INCLUDING OTHER GB AREAS".

But, I repeat, this is just my point of view...

* Then the interesting point:
It could be interesting (or a complete waste of time, you choose) to calculate how many fanatic soldiers do you need to invade the continent and... how many slaves, nutrinional resources (er... food, yes!), steel, wood and so on, you need to SUSTAIN this kind of army-society...
The estimations on the "Empire Ténébreux" book are just what they are... estimations... based on very little facts.

Oooh... I have writen too much this time, let me quit my computer to do some sport in order to be... a good swiss army soldier!

 

[AURIKALKO]

Chain Skirt - AP5, Enc 2, Protects legs, 800 SP, -10%.
The lighter hawberk should be -2% skill penalty, not -4% skill.
Your right - it's three parries + three attacks.
Yep - Bothnia should be in Finland. And for that matter, Vitall is in Londra, not the middle of Eire.

The old Chaosium map placed Kroiden somewhere near Bristol...

Hello!

This is untrue: Chaosium places Kroiden in the same place as MM & Mongoose.


Aurik
Alko

 

[Loz]

No, the Chaosium map that was part of the Hawkmoon boxed set clearly locates Kroiden as somewhere near Bristol - a good 200 miles from where it should be!

My copy of the Orion Hawkmoon omnibus has Kroiden located in its rightful place, just south of London (which is Croydon in real life).

When I published the Hawkmoon supplement monograph, I used the old Chaosium map and Photoshopped it so that Kroiden was where it should be - could this be what you're referring to?

 

[AURIKALKO]

No, the Chaosium map that was part of the Hawkmoon boxed set clearly locates Kroiden as somewhere near Bristol - a good 200 miles from where it should be!

My copy of the Orion Hawkmoon omnibus has Kroiden located in its rightful place, just south of London (which is Croydon in real life).

When I published the Hawkmoon supplement monograph, I used the old Chaosium map and Photoshopped it so that Kroiden was where it should be - could this be what you're referring to?

Hi:

I have the original box set & your monograph, Mr W, both have Kroiden in the same place, as far as I can see.

Greetz
Aurik
Alko
PS: Congrats on Corum (Darcsyde)

 

[Loz]

Then you're not looking too closely!

On the Chaosium map - and I've just checked this - Kroiden is definitely over by Bristol. In the Chaosium monograph, look for the black splodge, and you'll see its just south of London, where it should be.

And many thanks for the kind words on Corum, but actually, I didn't write that book. All Geoff Gillan's excellent work.

Loz

 

[smiorgan]

Then you're not looking too closely!
And many thanks for the kind words on Corum, but actually, I didn't write that book. All Geoff Gillan's excellent work.

Loz

And a brilliant work it is. But you will write MRQ Corum, won't you?

:wink:

It would be great to have (also) the "Irish" setting of the second Corum trilogy, which I dig a lot. That scary world full of the hordes of wolves and frozen zombies of the Fhoy-Mhyore/ Fomorians! Cold chaos is scarier than hot chaos.
I really want my players to run from the Fhoy-Mhyore and hit the isle of the Melibann, just to have a chat with the severed head of the Green Empress Terhali.



Not to mention the potential of a Slaine / Corum crossover...

 

[Loz]

Corum was on my To Do list, but has been put back to next year, so we'll see. But I think its still one of mine.

And yes, the second trilogy is firmly in my sights. Not sure how I'll work that together with the first books, because they're set hundreds of years apart, but I'm sure I'll find a way.

 

[Deleriad]

oops. posted in wrong place.

 

[smiorgan]

Corum was on my To Do list, but has been put back to next year, so we'll see. But I think its still one of mine.

And yes, the second trilogy is firmly in my sights. Not sure how I'll work that together with the first books, because they're set hundreds of years apart, but I'm sure I'll find a way.

Cool. I'll wait patiently.
In fact having both setings fully detailed in one book may be difficult. But I think one could weave a number of hints to the second series already in the corebook and then devote a supplement entirely to hit.....
...Or one could always do one definitive tome of 200+ pages of unabridged Corum goodness...