760 Patrons

[drbuzzard]

Is it just me, or was this book a severe disappointment?

I bought it on the expectation that it would be like 76 Patrons from the olden days, but it was nothing like it. In fact I get pretty much no use whatsoever from it. I still get plenty of use from the original 76 instead.

 

[rust]

Is it just me, or was this book a severe disappointment?

Not for me. It may not be the most useful of all Mongoose Traveller books
for my campaign (that would be Scout), but I really like the opportunity to
pick NPCs from 760 Patrons almost at random to add some more colour
and some twists to the campaign.

For example, the characters visit the starport bar on Kaylah, or they meet
some newly arrived colonists on Anuira.
Before 760 Patrons, I would have had to either use pregenerated NPCs (I
usually pregenerated not enough or the wrong ones) or to create them on
the wing (which tends to make them somewhat stereotypical, I am not ve-
ry good at this kind of improvisation).
Today I open 760 Patrons, take the first character that is not completely
implausible under the circumstances, and my problem is solved - and of-
ten with an idea I would never have thought of and that makes the set-
ting and campaign more interesting.

 

[drbuzzard]

I suppose I was just looking for something else when I bought it. The handy little short adventure ideas you got in 76 Patrons was (and is) very valuable to me. A bunch of unstatted NPCs who have odd quirks, not so much.

 

[kristof65]

IMO, the information provided in 76 and 760 Patron's is pretty much the same type of info, it's just presented with some differences:

76 Patrons is organized by # of players, while 760 is organized by character type and whether they are an antagonist/protagonist.

76 Patrons offers more specifics to the adventure seed, by statng when/where the PCs will likely meet the patron and how much the patron will pay. 760 Patrons doesn't provide this information, assuming the GMs will arrange that portion.

Other than that, the rest is similar.

My biggest issue with 760 Patron's is that with 10 times as many to choose from, it's harder to find what I'm looking for. Please don't do 7600 patrons.

 

[AndrewW]

My biggest issue with 760 Patron's is that with 10 times as many to choose from, it's harder to find what I'm looking for. Please don't do 7600 patrons.

How about 7599 patrons?

 

[drbuzzard]

IMO, the information provided in 76 and 760 Patron's is pretty much the same type of info, it's just presented with some differences:

76 Patrons is organized by # of players, while 760 is organized by character type and whether they are an antagonist/protagonist.

76 Patrons offers more specifics to the adventure seed, by statng when/where the PCs will likely meet the patron and how much the patron will pay. 760 Patrons doesn't provide this information, assuming the GMs will arrange that portion.

Other than that, the rest is similar.

My biggest issue with 760 Patron's is that with 10 times as many to choose from, it's harder to find what I'm looking for. Please don't do 7600 patrons.

Maybe I'm missing something in reading 760, but most of the contacts in 760 give just a minor quirk of the 'patron' not an actual job. I don't find them to be even vaguely comparable.

 

[hdan]

IMO, the information provided in 76 and 760 Patron's is pretty much the same type of info, it's just presented with some differences:

Maybe I'm missing something in reading 760, but most of the contacts in 760 give just a minor quirk of the 'patron' not an actual job. I don't find them to be even vaguely comparable.

I agree - IMO the whole point of 76 Patrons was to give you ready-made adventure seeds with a random outcome so the GM didn't have to "arrange that portion". With 76 Patrons, the "patron" was secondary to the "Encounter" part - what needs doing, how much is it worth to the players, and what could go wrong.

760 Patrons would be better titled "760 Characters" or even "760 Archetypes". I'm not saying it's a bad book - what it does, it does well.

But it's not 10x 76 Patrons.

 

[kristof65]

I will admit to not having read all 760 entries, but the few that I've read thoroughly, and a random sampling all have stuff that could turn to jobs.

Here's six I randomly turned to:

Upper Class Patrons - 26-31.P Alien Benefactor - wants to help a scientific project. This could be providing money to the players, or hiring them for someone elses project.

Spacer Patrons - 44-45.P Wayward Traveller - looking for help finding out where he is and/or getting back to where he "belongs"

Spacer Patrons - 56-61.P Agency Advisor - already works for whomever the PCs work for, can direct or assist current assignments as needed.

Mercenary Patrons - 16-21.A Rogue Student. The student himself doesn't really suggest a job, but the fact that he's gone missing suggests the PCs could be hired to find him.

Middle Class Patrons - 32-33.P Award Committee Member - admittedly, this one threw me - I've been looking at these so far consider how I would apply them to my current campaign. This one is apparently aimed at those PCs in some form of Entertainment career, and unless your PCs have one or more of those types, the only jobs that suggest themselves would be guard type jobs surrounding somesort of awards ceremony.

Spacer Patrons - 65.P Technology Distributor - 2 out of the 4 events directly suggest jobs, the other 2 events suggest interesting encounters.


Admittedly, there is less of an emphasis on the Patron type of encounter - a more accurate name would probably be 760 Encounters. Personally, I think 760 Patrons focused on the way most people were (ok, at least the way I was) using 76 Patrons - as interesting encounters. Very rarely did any of the NPCs I created using 76 Patrons actually turn into jobs or adventures for the PCs.

 

[AndrewW]

Middle Class Patrons - 32-33.P Award Committee Member - admittedly, this one threw me - I've been looking at these so far consider how I would apply them to my current campaign. This one is apparently aimed at those PCs in some form of Entertainment career, and unless your PCs have one or more of those types, the only jobs that suggest themselves would be guard type jobs surrounding somesort of awards ceremony.

Transportation services. Perhaps there's a missing entertainer that needs to be found. Somebody stole the award and it is in need of recovery. Perhaps bringing the award winner to collect it, who is out of communication and not even aware of the award where they have to locate the person then provide transportation. Perhaps there is criminal involvement and the award ceremony is really a cover for a meeting of mob bosses, with the characters not knowing this of course.

 

[kristof65]

Which proves that you only need to look at the NPC in question in the right light to suggest a lot of jobs.

 

[drbuzzard]

I will admit to not having read all 760 entries, but the few that I've read thoroughly, and a random sampling all have stuff that could turn to jobs.

Here's six I randomly turned to:

Upper Class Patrons - 26-31.P Alien Benefactor - wants to help a scientific project. This could be providing money to the players, or hiring them for someone elses project.

Spacer Patrons - 44-45.P Wayward Traveller - looking for help finding out where he is and/or getting back to where he "belongs"

Spacer Patrons - 56-61.P Agency Advisor - already works for whomever the PCs work for, can direct or assist current assignments as needed.

Mercenary Patrons - 16-21.A Rogue Student. The student himself doesn't really suggest a job, but the fact that he's gone missing suggests the PCs could be hired to find him.

Middle Class Patrons - 32-33.P Award Committee Member - admittedly, this one threw me - I've been looking at these so far consider how I would apply them to my current campaign. This one is apparently aimed at those PCs in some form of Entertainment career, and unless your PCs have one or more of those types, the only jobs that suggest themselves would be guard type jobs surrounding somesort of awards ceremony.

Spacer Patrons - 65.P Technology Distributor - 2 out of the 4 events directly suggest jobs, the other 2 events suggest interesting encounters.


Admittedly, there is less of an emphasis on the Patron type of encounter - a more accurate name would probably be 760 Encounters. Personally, I think 760 Patrons focused on the way most people were (ok, at least the way I was) using 76 Patrons - as interesting encounters. Very rarely did any of the NPCs I created using 76 Patrons actually turn into jobs or adventures for the PCs.

I'd have called it 760 NPC overviews. I don't find the stuff in there fleshed out enough to be patrons by any means. Since they don't even bother with stats, it's not even full NPCs. I think it's pretty much a lazy effort of a book, and regret buying it.

The depth of the ideas presented are so shallow that it simply doesn't help me any.

 

[kristof65]

I'd have called it 760 NPC overviews. I don't find the stuff in there fleshed out enough to be patrons by any means. Since they don't even bother with stats, it's not even full NPCs.

To be fair, 76 Patrons didn't have fleshed out NPCs either. Like I said, 760 Encounters would probably have been a more apt name than 760 Patrons.

I think it's pretty much a lazy effort of a book.

Creating 760 encounters to the detail they did - even if they didn't have the detail you were looking for - is hardly "lazy".

The depth of the ideas presented are so shallow that it simply doesn't help me any.

Where as I, on the other hand, appreciate that the ideas aren't so specific that I find them difficult to fit into my campaign.

I'm sorry you didn't like the book, and it didn't meet your expectations. But I find myself wondering if you've actually compared it side by side to the old 76 Patrons - because when I was looking at the two of them side by side earlier today, I really didn't see that much more detail in the older book - and what extra detail I did see - like how much someone would pay - was something that I could easily decide on the fly without much creative thought at all during a game session.

 

[hdan]

I'm sorry you didn't like the book, and it didn't meet your expectations. But I find myself wondering if you've actually compared it side by side to the old 76 Patrons - because when I was looking at the two of them side by side earlier today, I really didn't see that much more detail in the older book - and what extra detail I did see - like how much someone would pay - was something that I could easily decide on the fly without much creative thought at all during a game session.

Right - if you were looking for a book about NPCs, the old 76 Patrons would not have satisfied you. Likewise, if you were looking for 760 Instant Adventures, the new book won't satisfy you.

"Patron Encounter" has a very specific meaning in Traveller. Refer to "Sample Patrons" on page 77 of the main MGT rulebook for a list of what a Patron Encounter specification should contain. And then look on pages 78-80 to see examples of what many people were expecting to get 760 of in "760 Patrons".

The point being made is, these two books are trying to solve different problems, so probably shouldn't have had such similar names.

 

[iainjcoleman]

"Patron Encounter" has a very specific meaning in Traveller. Refer to "Sample Patrons" on page 77 of the main MGT rulebook for a list of what a Patron Encounter specification should contain. And then look on pages 78-80 to see examples of what many people were expecting to get 760 of in "760 Patrons".

Absolutely. After reading 760 Patrons, I imagined a design process more or less like this:

- Let's do a book of patron encounters, like the old 76 Patrons, but bigger and better.

- Bigger and better? Hey, how about 760 Patrons?

- Make it so!

[Some consideration of page counts, print costs and price points]

- Look, with this word count I can only do 760 NPC sketches. How about we make it 180 Patrons? That would work.

- Sorry, we've already announced the title.

- Bugger.

 

[GamerDude]

LoL... that was good iainjcoleman

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I have used the 760 Patrons book to flesh out Allies, Contacts, Rivals and Enemies that are gained during Character Generation. It works REALLY well for that roll.

I have also used it to flesh out generic NPCs or family members of PCs.

In the process of creating that Contact, several plot ideas have come to mind every time.

I recommend this book.

 

[drbuzzard]

I'd have called it 760 NPC overviews. I don't find the stuff in there fleshed out enough to be patrons by any means. Since they don't even bother with stats, it's not even full NPCs.

To be fair, 76 Patrons didn't have fleshed out NPCs either. Like I said, 760 Encounters would probably have been a more apt name than 760 Patrons.

I think it's pretty much a lazy effort of a book.

Creating 760 encounters to the detail they did - even if they didn't have the detail you were looking for - is hardly "lazy".

The depth of the ideas presented are so shallow that it simply doesn't help me any.

Where as I, on the other hand, appreciate that the ideas aren't so specific that I find them difficult to fit into my campaign.

I'm sorry you didn't like the book, and it didn't meet your expectations. But I find myself wondering if you've actually compared it side by side to the old 76 Patrons - because when I was looking at the two of them side by side earlier today, I really didn't see that much more detail in the older book - and what extra detail I did see - like how much someone would pay - was something that I could easily decide on the fly without much creative thought at all during a game session.

When I look at 76 Patrons I can find a plot hook which can be made into a gaming session for my group. There's enough details and ideas there for me to get started.

When I look at 760 Patrons, I get quirky, unstatted NPCs who may have something which, if I work at it could be turned into a plot hook, but there's no plot hook there.

I consider it both lazy and false advertising. As someone else mentioned, Patron in Traveler means something specific, and 760 Patrons doesn't fit the bill.

 

[saundby]

When I look at 760 Patrons, I get quirky, unstatted NPCs who may have something which, if I work at it could be turned into a plot hook, but there's no plot hook there.

I consider it both lazy and false advertising. As someone else mentioned, Patron in Traveler means something specific, and 760 Patrons doesn't fit the bill.

Patron in Traveller doesn't mean a fully statted NPC or a full adventure. A Patron is nothing more than a very shallow description of a character. A Casual Encounter is a more fully fleshed out person. An Amber Zone is a mini-adventure.

The Patron encounter table in the 1977 LBB3, page 20, is a 6 by 6 list of occupation names. Period.

The Patron Encounter table in The Traveller Book, page 100, is two D66 lists of occupation names, period.

76 Patrons gives an occupation, required skills and equipment for the adventure hook, a few sentences of adventure, and a 1D6 table of referee's info on the situation behind the situation, usually a single sentence. Here's a fabricated example:

93: Investigator     Required Skills: Investigate, Persuade     Required Equipment: Magnifying Glass and Trained Beagle

An investigator contacts the group for assistance on a case which he has been unable to crack on his own. An unidentified dead body was found on a planetary surface transport, from which three other passengers in two other compartments likewise disappeared. He will pay Cr3000 for any clues that lead to an explanation.

Referee's Information:
1. It was possibly all a case of mistaken identities. The conductor on the transport was likely drunk at the time.
2. The transport slowed for a construction area on the planet, people were possibly leaping back and forth between transports while they slowed in this area, and hijinks ensued.
3. The dead man had a whole bunch of high precision chronometers on him.
4. A thorough search of the path of the transport will turn up a Bible with cryptic inscriptions in it.
5. The investigator himself is likely drunk. There is a one in six chance he can be bilked into giving up the reward without a real investigation.
6. The dead man didn't always look as he does in death. If his corpse is fitted with a deerstalker that has a pair of rabbit ears on top, the conductor will have a sudden revelation upon seeing him in this state.

Here's a quote from JTAS 11 that concerns Patrons:

This month also sees the start of another regular feature for the Journal, called Casual Encounters. We have long felt that there was a void which needed to be filled between the player character, with a fully developed background, and the simple, shallowly developed nonplayer character from sources such as supplement 1, 1001 Characters or supplement 6, 76 Patrons. We feel we have come up with a feature which will fill this void. Casual Encounters are descriptions of unusual and interesting non-player characters, with many potential uses. Each description will include the character's UPP, some short biographical notes and any unusual drives or motivations. In addition, each encounter will give a number of adventure ideas, places where the character is usually found, and what the character will want of the players. A referee can use a Casual Encounter as the start of an evening's scenario, as a jumping off place for a series of interconnected scenarios, or add excitement to an existing campaign.

Anyway, it's a shame you're disappointed. But IMO your feeling of what you expected from the book isn't upheld by historical Traveller terminology.

Personally I've enjoyed the book. For UPPs I keep a set of six pairs of dice on hand so that I can get the whole thing in one roll (dice pairs colored to match resistor color codes so that I know what order to read them in.) For cash, I usually have an order of magnitude idea of what seems right, then I roll 2D6-2 on that to get an actual value in Cr.

 

[danbuter]

760 Patrons has been one of the most useful Traveller books published, if you are actually running a game and not just reading the books.