5(!) different 400T SDBs

[thesmiths4]

Here's a link to my three (now five!) designs for a basic 400T SDB. The Dragon Class is the TL12 version, and the Gryphon and Wyvern Classes are TL10 and TL15, respectively. They are essentially the same design, but with different fittings as the tech becomes more available.

The SDBs seem to have lots of excess space--I gave each of the crew their own rooms, and also gave them 6 months of fuel!

Here's the link to view them: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FuYIxyzpKfrC1E9g_AdKGQDb74ZRVKbvseLGbQbthIE/edit?usp=sharing

Comments?

 

[Nerhesi]

Comments:

a) Speed speed speed. Max Speed on SDBs!
b) Excess Space = Reaction Drive Boosters = Massive Tactical Performance Increase

Speed & Excess fuel is good. We have cannon references to SDBs making a huge impact in the fifth frontier war because when the Zhodani armada jumped in, they scattered and conducted guerilla warfare over the next 6 months. So speed and fuel is of the essence!!!

 

[thesmiths4]

Comments:

a) Speed speed speed. Max Speed on SDBs!
b) Excess Space = Reaction Drive Boosters = Massive Tactical Performance Increase

Speed & Excess fuel is good. We have cannon references to SDBs making a huge impact in the fifth frontier war because when the Zhodani armada jumped in, they scattered and conducted guerilla warfare over the next 6 months. So speed and fuel is of the essence!!!

You left me a bit confused. Are you saying that you think the designs are good ones?

 

[Nerhesi]

Comments:

a) Speed speed speed. Max Speed on SDBs!
b) Excess Space = Reaction Drive Boosters = Massive Tactical Performance Increase

Speed & Excess fuel is good. We have cannon references to SDBs making a huge impact in the fifth frontier war because when the Zhodani armada jumped in, they scattered and conducted guerilla warfare over the next 6 months. So speed and fuel is of the essence!!!

You left me a bit confused. Are you saying that you think the designs are good ones?

I think you need to put them up against nearly identical designs, that reduce the bonus reinforced hull give them improved maneuverability (either increase drive speed or add rocket boosters), and give them particle barbettes instead of missile barbettes (or very long range pulse lasers for the lower tech). You'll notice they can stay at very long range forever, jamming missiles which take 4 turns to connect, while constantly hitting you. In fact, I believe your designs may quickly run out of missiles as they dont have reloads either.

 

[PsiTraveller]

To go against a design like yours, using identical Tl15 tech I would do the following.

Instead of 2 missiles barbettes I would take Tachyon barbettes (TL14), increase it to Very Long range with a Tech advance and double the cost. You could make it budget and make the barbette 5.5 tons in size (the 10 percent tonnage increase) to cut the price back in half.
I would engage you from very long range and do, on average, 2 points of damage per barbette (2D damage ignoring 10 armour, so 5 armour reduction).
I could ignore your barbette salvos with average rolls of EW. The bonuses you get from the countermeasures suite (+6), Enhanced signal (+4) and the Advanced Sensors (+2) is +12, so even on a roll of 2 the Effect is 6 and in 2 rounds all the missiles are gone, on an average of 7 roll 12 missiles would be removed, and you only shoot 10 in a salvo

Ship 400 tons
Streamlined, Reflec, Emission shielding
Armour 15 bonded superdense
M-9
Reaction Thruster: speed 10
Fuel for Thrusters: 60 tons allowing 30 minutes of outrunning missiles if things go terribly wrong.
Power Plant: 27 tons
Computer TL 15
Advanced Sensors
Enhanced signal processing
Military countermeasures
2 Tachyon Barbettes: 11 tons each
Long range tech advance
2 Triple Pulse Laser Turrets
Tech advance Long range, Intense Focus: These would not get past your armour, but I can use them at +2 for Point Defence
Fuel scoops, Fuel Processors, Forced Linkage and Tow cable. To tow ships back to base once they surrender
10 double occupancy staterooms:
Crew is pilot, engineers X2, Gunners X 8, Medic, Sensor Operator X 2, Marines X 4
Repair Drones for use out of combat to help repair ship after combat.
Software: Fire control 5, Evade 1
Cargo 15 tons

Cost: 382 MCr 4 MCr more than you.

If I dropped the Thrust 10 I could gain 140 tons of space to add more marines and a launch or reinforce the hull. This is a keep away SDB. Engage at Very Long range and nibble the enemy to death.
You would get a Crit every 25 minutes on average. (assuming 20 points cumulative would create a Crit.)

That's my draft version anyway. As I typed this I started thinking that at 400 tons you should look at bays for one weapon. They double or triple the damage of barbettes. There is a significant tonnage cost, but at TL 15 the armour protection removes the impact of barbettes at Very Long range.
So a Particle beam Barbette at 50 tons with 6D could get 21 points -15 = 6 damage a round, 9 damage if you took the Very high yield.
Tachyon Bay would do 9damage on average.

Or we go aggressive and put in a Fusion Bay, extend the range to long, charge in 1 band and try and do a Critical Hit every turn with a good roll. Can Fusion Bays Get the Very High Yield advantage and do a minimum of 40 points a Hit? (-15 for armour) and you take 25 points of damage a turn plus a Critical Hit, Plus an Effect Critical hit if I ever get a 6 Effect on the roll.

And I am stealing your design and will be throwing it against my players in my next game session. Thank you!

 

[Nerhesi]

I could ignore your barbette salvos with average rolls of EW. The bonuses you get from the countermeasures suite (+6), Enhanced signal (+4) and the Advanced Sensors (+2) is +12, so even on a roll of 2 the Effect is 6 and in 2 rounds all the missiles are gone, on an average of 7 roll 12 missiles would be removed, and you only shoot 10 in a salvo

The "regardless" statement in the rules indicates that you now get a +6 for military countermeasures, instead of your usual bonuses, otherwise it would say "in addition" somewhere. So Max +6 to jamming/EW not +6, then +4 then +2 Also, under sensors it lists that these options "upgrade" existing sensors. Finally, as per MGT1, they never stacked, they just replaced - and never combined together or with previous stuff.

Also - you can note from the below example, there is literally no need to have them stack

Sensor ops trying to lock-on: 2D +(+Char DM +Skill rank) +4 for Enhanced Signal Processing -4 for target's stealth, -2 target's possible for emission absorption.
VS
Sensor ops of someone attempting to Jam: 2D +(+Char DM +Skill rank) +6 for Jamming

So assuming equal skill, it's an opposed 2D -2 vs 2D+6 to try to get a lock on. Basically, almost guaranteed no lock between equally advanced ships with equal crews. This is fine because a lock-on is deadly (Boon to ALL attacks).

 

[thesmiths4]

I updated the ships to remove a pair of staterooms and a bit of cargo space and added ten tons of missile storage. A couple of the ships troops aboard can double up.

In design terms, I was trying to stay as close as possible to the original Dragon class SDBs--laser and missile armed, long legged, heavily armored, limited by the class's TL, of course. Perhaps these boats are primarily used for law enforcement, customs, and piracy suppression, and also for escort/support missions.

I will go back and put together a TL12 laser and particle SDB, and a TL 15 laser and tachyon SDB that are more aimed at pure naval ops.

 

[thesmiths4]

I'm up to five different classes, with the more naval ops oriented Barracuda at TL-12 armed with lasers and particle barbettes, and the similarly-themed Mako at TL-15 with lasers and tachyon cannon barbettes joining the list.

I'm of two minds about putting reaction thrusters on SDBs. I like the extra legs that they give the ship, but the loss of space for armor and other systems seems prohibitive.

 

[PsiTraveller]

I wonder if we can start a thread or forum where we take designs up against each other in gladiatorial combat.
In this corning , weighing in at 800 tons, and sporting a record of 2-0 and 1 misjump "The Mako!"...

 

[Nerhesi]

I wonder if we can start a thread or forum where we take designs up against each other in gladiatorial combat.
In this corning , weighing in at 800 tons, and sporting a record of 2-0 and 1 misjump "The Mako!"...

I love those threads! I'm all for it after the HG release. Nice Change of Pace. The great thing is, with all the effort on balance now, we don't have a "1 design to rule them all" scenario thankfully