4 Battle Carrier Clash vs Drakh, opinions?

So the campaign is progressing forward, and the Drakh are after their 10 RR world.

The scenario is 4 battle Carrier Clash, and here's what I think I'll take:

2 x Apollo (both with addtl weapons fitted and enchanced interceptor networks).
1 x Omega
6 x Hermes

Anyone recommend taking anything different (I've maxed out on my Hermes, but I have multiples of just about every other ship in my fleet roster, barring anything at war level or an explorer).
 
Good idea taking the apollo's just don't let them get swamped by enemies as you will need these to do most of the work for you. The Omega will be able to dish out damage here too and will need to keep close to the apollos to protect them from flank attacks in my opnion. I can understand teh reasoning behind the Hermes as you will need initative sinks for boresights and movement purposes plus they have precise weapons but I can't see them lasting long. Any idea what the oppoent is taking apatr from The Carrier?

I would take if I was him:
Carrier x 1 + 2 light raiders + 2 heavy raiders
Cruiser x 1
Light Cruiser x 2 (raid)
Light Raider x 4 ( skirmish)
( excuse me if I got new armageddon point breakdowns wrong)

This gives him good beam power and lots of riaders to flank enemies plus have dodge too so should avoid lots of damage.
 
As odd as this may sound can the Drakh actually PLAY that scenario legally? As I recall you must field a ship that carries auxilliary craft as your largest ship.... Drakh dont carry them, they carry ships....

Oh wait yes they do, they carry breaching pods... :oops:

Looks like a good list TBH, the main bit of advice I'd give would be to ignore his carrier and target the raiders and light cruisers first, come back for the carrier later :)

Get the easier kills as soon as you can to help the initiative side of things and spread your hermes out as much as you can so the drakh have to split off in multiple directions if they want to take them out (and never underestimate the usefulness of 'close blast doors' for small initiative sinky ships :D)
 
The drakh side. . .

I'd take a mothership here rather than the carrier, it will get it's raiders out quicker, and doesn't die as hideously as the stupid carrier. carrying 3 heavy, 3 light and 2 scouts.
the other 2 BP's I would max out with light cruisers personally. but 2 cruisers SHOULD in theory make a mess of the EA. especially if they have 2 scout locking on for them.

form the EA perspective.
I see 6 dead Hermes. 6 raiders should mince them no problem, not to mention what the other ships can do. I'm not 100% up on the appolo and how it loads it's missiles, but can you mix them? abviously anti fighter to kill raiders, and something heavy to take down cruisers, you need the big punch to get through the GEG. The Omega "could" star for you, it's beam should punch trhough the hull 5 and GEG althoguh whether it can get in enough crits is debateable, but it's a sturdy ship, problem being you will be outnumbered more likely than not meaning you might only be boresighting small ships. what about the Nova? it outranges raiders, and can soak a decent amount of fire, as well as having enough dice to overwhelm a GEG on most ships
 
Ok, maybe I'm a minority here, but I think that the EA here is really asking for it with the Apollos.

What I might see (and be afraid of):

2 Battle:
--Mothership: 6 Lights, 2 Heavies.
1 Battle: -> 2 Raid -> 1 Raid + 2 Skirmish ->1 Raid + 1 Skirmish + 2 Patrol
-- 1 Light Cruiser, 1 Light Raider, 2 Scouts. (2 more HRs can be easily swapped in for the 1 CL, also).
1 Battle: 4 Light Raiders.

Net (if he can afford it): Mothership, 2 HR, 1 Light Cruiser, 2 Scouts, 11 LR.

Note what's key here: he can outsink you with ease. You won't be able to get to the Mothership before he barfs 'em all out, so don't even try. The Mothership will then probably go asteroid-diving (thanks, terrain) after that until it's ready to come out at game-end. He'll almost certainly have the scout advantage, and with a +6 initiative and a reroll, he'll get to choose which side of the board to start on. Note exactly that this above rationale is why the scouts are not on board the Mothership, I want that placement reroll.

with the above fleet, he will initiative sink with the 2 HR, the CL, scouts and the Mothership, leaving you having moved all your Hermes. At this point, the LRs wil pass -- sorta, maybe move behind terrain -- until the capital ships have moved, and the remaining ships will end up at range 31 to the Battle-level ships, pointed just over their shoulder.

Next turn, they will sink with the heavy ships again, forcing the Hermes to move to contact range. Then, almost to a man, they will all burst forward with an All Power to Engines. That'll move them 21 inches forward. This will be your one good shot, use it well. but even that isn't promising:

2 x 8 Flash Missiles (from the Appollos) -- CAF -- is 7 hits, dodge, say 3 (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, even!) plus one critical for 8:8 + DD Critical, say, a 2:2 for 4:4 -- 11:11 after the GEG.

Notice you've killed .... nothing. The Omega might get a shot at something with its beam -- that's probably your best weapon right here -- but I'm not guaranteeing anything. At best, you'll kill 1 and cripple 1 light raider.

Now, the LRs will spend one more turn hunting -- (still using those beautiful HRs as initiative sinks in the back row ... although the Scouts may move to within scouting range at this point) and killing the Hermes initiative sinks. That should take 2 turns, and kill off another ... say 2 LRs, the days of CAF are over. He'll have 7 or so left.

(For example, 1 LR is looking for 3's on a beam. That's just over 2 hits per. With 9 LRs, you'll get about 18 precise hits. That's 18:18 and 6 criticals -- 7.2:12.0 or so additional -- for 25:31 or so per turn. That's 2-3 dead Hermes per turn.)

At this point, the Mothership and the 2 scouts can sink out your remaining vessels, and the Omegas and Apollos, with the maneuver of the Raiders, will be lucky if they ever see much of anything in F arc again. It's probably safe to commit the Light Cruiser at this point, and, if you can guarantee that the one Apollo can't get a shot at an HR, you can charge with it (all power ... of course!) as well. This will get the heavy firepower into the fight, safely, that the taking down of Hull 6 requires. Using the CL beams to kill the still-likely living EA fighters is also commendable.

The real problem is side coverage against the LR's. They really have Whitestar-itis. The move to a weak arc and light things up. The better responses usually involve lots of firepower in a few isolated systems that have arcs to each side. The Chronos might be a more compelling answer, and, if your fleet list allows, so might be Artemis frigates and Rail Hyperions.
 
Here's what I expect out of his fleet (after monitoring it closely and seeing what he sends back to fleet command).

1 x Mothership with 5 heavies, 2 lights, and 1 scout
1 x Cruiser
2 x Heavy Raider
2 x Light Raider

All of his light cruisers are either dead or back at fleet command. Ditto for his remaining Scouts (outside the one on the mothership).

I was tempted to take an Omega, 4 Chronos, and a Delphi, but I just didn't see me being able to bait him into close quarters without the 2 apollos blasting at him.

The last battle I fought against him was a 5 battle A Call to Arms.

I took:
2 Apollos
6 Hermes
1 Delphi
1 Chronos
3 x Hyperion Assault (which was a mistake, but I wanted to try it).

He had
Mothership
4 x Light Cruiser
6 x Scout

And I minced him. All 4 of the Light Cruisers were dead on turn 3. The Mothership escaped into Hyperspace when the Apollos got missiles in range, and he left his remaining Raiders to try and do some damage to my fleet.

All 6 of my Hermes ended up dead, along with 1 of my Hyperion Assaults.
 
I agree that if you divide the hermes up you might bait him into attacking them piecemeal. That will allow the Apollos to pound the snot out of the light raiders. I suggest you put AF missiles on the Hermes. That will make him really want to take them out and pull Brett into range of the big guns.

I figure you'll loose all the Hermes again, but at least you'll be able to extract some revenge and probably win the scenario. Try starting out squadroned the first turn before separating the second. It may allow you to hammer him for a turn before he closes as he may expect you to remain in squadron like the last game.

Its a shame you can't squeeze at least one Kronos into the battle line. It could come in handy. When are you scheduled to play this battle? I'm looking to engage in the next campaign turn. Beware the Vree (The Theme from UFO plays quietly in the backgroung increasing in intensity over a moment or two).

Also Brant, I'm not going to be able to make the Warmaster games tomorrow. I'll be staying home with a sick young one. If things miraculously get better (doubtfull), I'll still try and make it. Maybe I'll get a chance to paint or work on my sand table.
 
Brant, have you considered the following set up.


1 BP Apollos
3 BP 6 Kronos

or

2 BP 2 Apollos
2 BP 4 Kronos

The Apollos will hamer the Drakh from afar and force them to close here the Kronos will unload all around on them dening much of the benifit that his mobility provides. Unlike my Vree, you 6 hull kronos' should be able to weather the AP beam from the Light Raiders he'll be bringing. I expect he'll gang up on them one at a time, but if you keep formation, the Apollos should continue to hammer them from the rear while the cross fire from the Kronos squadron really lights the raiders up.
 
Skipper said:
Brant, have you considered the following set up.


1 BP Apollos
3 BP 6 Kronos

or

2 BP 2 Apollos
2 BP 4 Kronos

Unfortunately the Scenario is Carrier Clash, so I have to bring either a Marathon or an Omega. What's good is he _has_ to bring the Mothership, as it's the only Drakh ship capable of carrying auxillary craft.

No problem about missing the game tomorrow. Brett and I have postponed our campaign battle to mid-next week. We were supposed to play both today and yesterday, but he cancelled on me both times.
 
Brant, I think you got your signature wrong. It should read three things: Time is the 1st, luck is the second, and Kurt Vonnegut would be third. But I'm not sure why you think he's a prime mover....... :wink:
 
Well, I ended up winning this one. 5 out of 6 of my Hermes were destroyed along with one of my Apollos (this really su cked, but such happens).

In this next turn I have _4_ battles to fight, as everyone jumped my posessions and the damnable Drakh used an other duty to force me to attack someone.

Luckily they are all at low priority, maybe I can hold out one more turn before the axe drops.
 
hermes in general won't be very successful against the drakh. GEG's make low AD weapons nearly useless, so starfuries, T-bolts, and 2AD missiles (hermes) won't be able to do a whole lot. Tethys laser boats might be an intersting choice here...
 
CZuschlag said:
Ok, maybe I'm a minority here, but I think that the EA here is really asking for it with the Apollos.

What I might see (and be afraid of):

2 Battle:
--Mothership: 6 Lights, 2 Heavies.
1 Battle: -> 2 Raid -> 1 Raid + 2 Skirmish ->1 Raid + 1 Skirmish + 2 Patrol
-- 1 Light Cruiser, 1 Light Raider, 2 Scouts. (2 more HRs can be easily swapped in for the 1 CL, also).
1 Battle: 4 Light Raiders.

Net (if he can afford it): Mothership, 2 HR, 1 Light Cruiser, 2 Scouts, 11 LR.

Note what's key here: he can outsink you with ease. You won't be able to get to the Mothership before he barfs 'em all out, so don't even try. The Mothership will then probably go asteroid-diving (thanks, terrain) after that until it's ready to come out at game-end. He'll almost certainly have the scout advantage, and with a +6 initiative and a reroll, he'll get to choose which side of the board to start on. Note exactly that this above rationale is why the scouts are not on board the Mothership, I want that placement reroll.

with the above fleet, he will initiative sink with the 2 HR, the CL, scouts and the Mothership, leaving you having moved all your Hermes. At this point, the LRs wil pass -- sorta, maybe move behind terrain -- until the capital ships have moved, and the remaining ships will end up at range 31 to the Battle-level ships, pointed just over their shoulder.

Next turn, they will sink with the heavy ships again, forcing the Hermes to move to contact range. Then, almost to a man, they will all burst forward with an All Power to Engines. That'll move them 21 inches forward. This will be your one good shot, use it well. but even that isn't promising:

2 x 8 Flash Missiles (from the Appollos) -- CAF -- is 7 hits, dodge, say 3 (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, even!) plus one critical for 8:8 + DD Critical, say, a 2:2 for 4:4 -- 11:11 after the GEG.

Notice you've killed .... nothing. The Omega might get a shot at something with its beam -- that's probably your best weapon right here -- but I'm not guaranteeing anything. At best, you'll kill 1 and cripple 1 light raider.

Now, the LRs will spend one more turn hunting -- (still using those beautiful HRs as initiative sinks in the back row ... although the Scouts may move to within scouting range at this point) and killing the Hermes initiative sinks. That should take 2 turns, and kill off another ... say 2 LRs, the days of CAF are over. He'll have 7 or so left.

(For example, 1 LR is looking for 3's on a beam. That's just over 2 hits per. With 9 LRs, you'll get about 18 precise hits. That's 18:18 and 6 criticals -- 7.2:12.0 or so additional -- for 25:31 or so per turn. That's 2-3 dead Hermes per turn.)

At this point, the Mothership and the 2 scouts can sink out your remaining vessels, and the Omegas and Apollos, with the maneuver of the Raiders, will be lucky if they ever see much of anything in F arc again. It's probably safe to commit the Light Cruiser at this point, and, if you can guarantee that the one Apollo can't get a shot at an HR, you can charge with it (all power ... of course!) as well. This will get the heavy firepower into the fight, safely, that the taking down of Hull 6 requires. Using the CL beams to kill the still-likely living EA fighters is also commendable.

The real problem is side coverage against the LR's. They really have Whitestar-itis. The move to a weak arc and light things up. The better responses usually involve lots of firepower in a few isolated systems that have arcs to each side. The Chronos might be a more compelling answer, and, if your fleet list allows, so might be Artemis frigates and Rail Hyperions.

I agree Chris. I would fear this as the EA. BTW, I can't remember if the Anti-Fighter Missle is precise. Do you recall?

Dave
 
The 6 Hermes would get ripped to shreds. I would drop them and 1 Apollo for 4 Chronos Frigates or 2 Chronos and another Omega (maybe a Pulse variant so you won't get screwed on boresight) . Fly in a tight group, don't let any part of your fleet get cut off or the Raiders (because the other guy will take Raiders) will eat single, unsupported Chronos.
 
yeah, the old "gang up" in campaign ACTA bites. You may have to decide to cede some battles to your enemies. Throw your weight where it counts. I'd prefer some type of challenge ladder structure for campaign play, something akin to the Necromunda campaign style. one oponnent a week, you can only lose territories in certain battles, etc...granted it was pretty abstract, but it probably made it more fun for a little longer.

Chern
 
Of course when you hold the top four strategic sites like Brant (Kriticalfailure), you should expect to get tag teamed.

Industrial World 10 RR
Mining Outpost 10 RR
Commerce World 6 RR
Agrian World 5 RR

The Drakh are in second only holding two strategic points for 7 RR

Ancient Jump Gate 5 RR
Verdant Planet 2 RR

It is the way of things, when you get this far ahead you tend to get a massive alliance against you. Besides, I don't know if I'll take the Commerce world from you in the Blackade senario. Only time will tell.
 
Skipper said:
Of course when you hold the top four strategic sites like Brant (Kriticalfailure), you should expect to get tag teamed.

Industrial World 10 RR
Mining Outpost 10 RR
Commerce World 6 RR
Agrian World 5 RR

No no, I hold this:
Industrial World 10 RR
Mining Outpost 10 RR
Commerce World 6 RR
Inner System Comet 1RR

And am attacking this:
Agrarian World 5RR.

I'm actually pretty confident that I will win the majority of my battles this turn.

The Blockade Run (Raid Level, vs Vree) I have licked (barring lucky critical hits).
The Convoy Duty (Patrol level, 3 v 4 FAP, vs Drakh) is almost a garaunteed loss.
The Space Superiority (5 raid vs Middle EA) is going to go my way.
The Supply Ships (3 Patrol vs Middle EA) should go my way as well.

And then I'll get jumped again next turn. Hooray.
 
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