2nd Ed Shadows

[Rabidchild]

What about giving a couple of the shadow ships the Fleet Carrier trait. It would give the fighters +1 for dogfights and allow the shadows to launch more of them (possibly).

I think this would be a neat fix, requiring little new playtesting on the fighters . It's also in keeping with the background of the fighters being drones. So they aren't much good on their own but with the guidance of their mothership they can coordinate action. Though in the case of the shadows the recovery roll might be more like fighters healing or the ship growing more.

 

[locarno24]

Shadow Queen wrote:
The hunter is going to an EA Covert Ops fleet list

It's doing what with the who now?

There's a new EA fleet - Covert Ops; essentially a second Clarkist Third Age/Crusade era fleet that represents the Psi Corps and the Shadowtech capships.

They're definitely nicking the Nemesis Class Destroyer (armageddon priority), the Hunter hybrid (war priority), the shadow omega-x (given that it was sort of the test-bed for the warlock - which is now sensibly war again - maybe war priority?) and getting the Psi-Corps mothership (mid level scout/carrier type thing) and Black Omega starfury flights...

And the ability to field standard Earthforce capships as allies, presumably.





Puppet Masters sounds cool. Earthforce, Covert ops and centauri sound sensible, I'd personally add raiders to the list as well...agents of chaos and all that.

A scout/destroyer pairing sounds sensible, and matches well with the shadow ship/ancient shadow ship pairing....

Given the rumoured appearance of the Vorlon Dreadnought, it'd be nice for the shadows to get some extras as well.

 

[Shadow Queen]

Shadow Queen wrote:
The hunter is going to an EA Covert Ops fleet list

It's doing what with the who now?

There's a new EA fleet - Covert Ops; essentially a second Clarkist Third Age/Crusade era fleet that represents the Psi Corps and the Shadowtech capships.

They're definitely nicking the Nemesis Class Destroyer (armageddon priority), the Hunter hybrid (war priority), the shadow omega-x (given that it was sort of the test-bed for the warlock - which is now sensibly war again - maybe war priority?) and getting the Psi-Corps mothership (mid level scout/carrier type thing) and Black Omega starfury flights...

And the ability to field standard Earthforce capships as allies, presumably.





Puppet Masters sounds cool. Earthforce, Covert ops and centauri sound sensible, I'd personally add raiders to the list as well...agents of chaos and all that.

A scout/destroyer pairing sounds sensible, and matches well with the shadow ship/ancient shadow ship pairing....

Given the rumoured appearance of the Vorlon Dreadnought, it'd be nice for the shadows to get some extras as well.

I think it should be "Master of Puppets" not the Ghost in the Shell AI

 

[angelus2000]

So now Metalllica would be controlling the Shadows.....?

 

[Triggy]

Shadow Queen wrote:
The hunter is going to an EA Covert Ops fleet list

It's doing what with the who now?

There's a new EA fleet - Covert Ops; essentially a second Clarkist Third Age/Crusade era fleet that represents the Psi Corps and the Shadowtech capships.

They're definitely nicking the Nemesis Class Destroyer (armageddon priority), the Hunter hybrid (war priority), the shadow omega-x (given that it was sort of the test-bed for the warlock - which is now sensibly war again - maybe war priority?) and getting the Psi-Corps mothership (mid level scout/carrier type thing) and Black Omega starfury flights...

And the ability to field standard Earthforce capships as allies, presumably.

Pretty much correct although definitely not an exhaustive list of what they will get/what they can do...

 

[Da Boss]

Some thoughts and suggestions for 2nd Ed – REVISED Due to excellent suggestionsAt present the Shadows are limited in choice – and especially in campaigns makes things less interesting for the controller and those who fight them.

Fleet choice

Priority Level: Patrol
Shadow Fighter Wing – weapons also become Mini-beam
Other fighter craft engaging these ships are usually advised to rely on their own agility to evade these devastating blasts and disengage as quickly as possible, leaving the destruction of Shadow fighters to the anti-fighter screens of capital ships

Priority Level: Raid
Shadow Scout – Same as now - use small scouts
Battle Scout – as Shadow Scout but reduce Stealth and make weapons also mini-beam, add two fighters

Priority Level: Battle
Destructor, add some damage and 4 dice MSB (Molecular Slicer Beam) plus 2 Fighters – use large scouts,

Priority Level: War
Shadow Ship (Adult) – version of the present Hunter stats but add Fleet Carrier ability

Priority Level: Armageddon
Shadow Ship (Ancient) – similar to present ship but add Fleet Carrier ability,

Stations
Observation Post - high stealth, a MSB and 4 fighters
Shadow Cloud

Puppet Masters – the Shadows constantly manipulate younger races to war upon and cull one another giving promises of ultimate power and new technologies.

When using the Shadows fleet, you may spend 1 Fleet Allocation Point of your allowance on “puppet” ships from one of the following “tainted” fleet lists; EA fleet - [i]Covert Ops, Centauri or Raiders[/i]
In a campaign, the Shadows may have a maximum of 1 Fleet Allocation Point at Battle level spent on puppet’s ships at any one time.

Re experience - - both they and the Vorlons need more than 6 abilities to make it less boring

– if more is made of Psykers and hopefully people will be able to “buy” them for their fleets – perhaps a useful experience would be “telepathic pilot” – immune to Jamming – as I believe they were trying to get such pilots for the PSI Corps?

Thank you for your time…………………

 

[OnlyTheShadowKnows]

I love the idea of having the shadows look like they are growing. Have them slowly grow their shadow ships larger. If you look on, I don't have the link right now, the website that shows ship scales for every SCI FI show and book ever made, the two shadow ships are essentially the same kind but one is larger and probably has more hit points and a stronger weapon. Maybe make the beam a bit beefier by giving it a few more attack dice on a ARMAG. level and 8 on a war or Battle level. Also the removal of the turrent was a smart move to make things more level, though I had a rough time trying to out class a few white star fighters.

I don't think you should, though, get rid of the hunter. It would make a fabulous entry to the Clark fleet or the EA on a slightly evil way. I wouldn't like to see it leave the ranks of the shadows. Even if you do add a few more shadow ships, in different sizes, it would be nice to have a few more variations. I know that you don't see them in the show but it would be nice to add some variations to it.

Without a doubt it would be great to make a shadow ship that can compete on an ancient level with the ancients. Maybe even make the Vorlon Planet killer an Ancient level ship.

 

[blackphoenix]

Here's my thoughts and these come from the b5wars sheets. Hope you like.


Fleet choice

Priority Level: Patrol
Shadow Fighter Wing – extend the weapon range to 3"

Priority Level: Skirmish
Shadow Patrol Ship - weakest version of the battle crabs, light slicer beam

Priority Level: Raid
Shadow Scout – Same as now
Shadow Strike Destroyer - non-scout variant with light slicer beams

Priority Level: Battle
Shadow Cruiser - medium battle crab, normal slicer beam, 2 flights
Shadow Carrier - medium battle crab, light slicer beam, 6 flights

Priority Level: War
Shadow Dreadnought - large battle crab, normal slicer beams, 2 flights

Priority Level: Armageddon
Shadow Battle Cruiser - heavy slicer beams, 6 flights

Stations
Shadow Regeneration Outpost
Shadow Cloud



Stat changes here:
Patrol: fighter range to 3"

Skirmish:
-Shadow Patrol Ship
Class: Skirmish
Speed: 12
Turns: SM
Hull: 4
Damage: 40
Special: AJP, FC, Repair 2

Weapon: Light Molecular Slicer Beam
Range: 12
Arc: Front
AD: 2
Special: Beam, Precise, Super AP, Double Damage


Raid:
-Shadow Strike Destroyer
Class: raid
Speed: 9
Turns: SM
Hull: 5
Damage: 80
Special: AJP, FC, Repair 1d6

Weapon: Light Molecular Slicer Beam
Range: 12
Arc: Front
AD: 4
Special: Beam, Prcise, Super AP, Double Damage


Battle:
-Shadow Cruiser
Class: battle
Speed: 7
Turns: SM
Flights: Shadow Fighters (2)
Hull: 5
Damage: 125
Special: AJP, FC, Repair 2d6

Weapon: Molecular Slicer Beam
Range: 15
Arc: Front
AD: 3
Special: Beam, Precise, Super AP, Triple Damage

-Shadow Carrier
Class: battle
Speed: 6
Turns: SM
Flights: Shadow Fighters (6)
Hull: 5
Damage: 100
Special: AJP, FC, Repair 3d6

Weapon: Light Molecular Slicer Beam
Range: 12
Arc: Front
AD: 6
Special: Beam, Precise, Super AP, Double Damage


War:
-Shadow Dreadnought
Stats are same as the "hunter' ship but has 2 flights only instead of the 4.


Armageddon:
-Shadow Battlecruiser
Stats are same as the shadow "ship" and 18" ranged Molecular slicer is renamed to "Heavy Molecular slicer beam".



Hope you like my ideas.

 

[Target]

Sounds good, always thought shadow should of been done like that.
The mini idea on the fighter will suit our house well as we don't have dogfights anymore we just fire on other fighters with the dogfight score being the modifier to dodge, most interceptor type get at least -1 to dodge roll, antifighter & e-mine are -2.

 

[Da Boss]

Target - which list did you prefer - Black Pheonix is more precise - but I think that is difficult to do as 2nd Ed I think will be quite different - Anti fighter and beam changes etc etc .

I really think that the Puppet Masters (or something Similar) rule would really add to the Shadows fleet - but mean that no new ships need to be created - as I imagine there is a limit to this - even with the two size ranges?

I think that the Carrier as you describe is a little vulnerable as Shodwo fighters on their own just don't cut it enough - prefer the suggestion from Rabidchild to give the "mother" Shadow ships - Adult and Ancient and it fits nicely again without new ships

However I am sure others have there own ideas - never mind those stalwarts fighting through rules / playtesting.!

 

[LordClammy]

I kinda dislike the idea of a shadow "carrier". when all of your ships, including fighters, possess the AJP, then why would you need one ? just jump the fighters in on their own power. then you dont have to worry about your carrier blowing up with ships still inside.

some ships having a flight or several isnt bad. but I wouldnt make carrier versions.

 

[Shadow Queen]

I kinda dislike the idea of a shadow "carrier". when all of your ships, including fighters, possess the AJP, then why would you need one ? just jump the fighters in on their own power. then you dont have to worry about your carrier blowing up with ships still inside.

some ships having a flight or several isnt bad. but I wouldnt make carrier versions.

snap how about a shadow grabber like what they did with the chief

 

[Da Boss]

interesting idea re the shdow grabber - any idea how it would work?

agree re the Carrier - the suggestions re FC to adult Shadow ships neater.

 

[Target]

Target - which list did you prefer - Black Pheonix is more precise - but I think that is difficult to do as 2nd Ed I think will be quite different - Anti fighter and beam changes etc etc .

I really think that the Puppet Masters (or something Similar) rule would really add to the Shadows fleet - but mean that no new ships need to be created - as I imagine there is a limit to this - even with the two size ranges?

I think that the Carrier as you describe is a little vulnerable as Shodwo fighters on their own just don't cut it enough - prefer the suggestion from Rabidchild to give the "mother" Shadow ships - Adult and Ancient and it fits nicely again without new ships

However I am sure others have there own ideas - never mind those stalwarts fighting through rules / playtesting.!

Probably prefered Black Phoenix list a little more but i just more like the idea of shadows having ships at all prioritylvls & carriers but then i think all lists should have those options. The Shadows & Vorlons lists are a little boring with the variations.
Not really in to having races being better at certain priorities. If it's a 5pt raid fleet then it should come down tactics & dice rolling not that i have better raid ships than you. If you want tougher battles play scenario types like the Battle of the line.

 

[blackphoenix]

Thanks for the feedback, but I forgot to have the fleet carrier trait to the carrier. Figured it would give it that little additional bonus.