2e Suggestion - initiative

[animus]

I can see how the initiative mods, would have the effects on Boresight. The point is, the Superior Shadows' take a Battlecrab, and win iniative. But face a Narn swarm, and have to forfeit the game. Since effectively, even though they can win iniative, they get ganked from all directions.

Sounds like what I mean - if they win initiative, they get to move their crab last, otherwise first. We've never had a game with one ship versus dozens but I still think the original idea will work.

 

[emperorpenguin]

although does mean a shadowship is unlikely to ever be boresighted by any of the early EA ships which is a problem.
differance with CBT is theres no init mods. unlike here where theres anything from -3 upto +6.
in the above example an EA fleet of even 100 hyperions is unlikely to beat a single shadowship unless there some bad rolls from the shadow player. this being due to the shadowship always moving last (or at least most the time with that differance in init rolls).

this init suggestion whilst good in theory unbalances boresight fleets further against the older races as the boresight fleets are also the fleets with the lowest inits at least out the main races.

true, with +6 initiative a shadow ship moving last would beat the hell out of a Drazi fleet with nothing of that PL!

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

like i said though there is the drawback here that we have init mods and boresight weapons. battletech doesnt have those problems which is why their system works.
i would like the system in place cos i do like big ships, just dont see it fitting so well with ACTA.

Well, CBT DOES have init mods, in the optional rules for units in the Field Manuals, but I know what you mean. The boresight issue is a very pertinent one, especially in the example given of a Drazi fleet vs. a Shadow ship. Unfortunately at the moment that shadow ship will be getting tons of boresights under the current rules, even when it wins initiative.

 

[Sulfurdown]

Interesting how one method heavily favors the small ships and the other heavily favors large ships. My two cents - Probably easier to use the method that favors small ships and set it up so the larger ships are modified to stand up to them.

 

[H]

hmm, ok lets randomly chuck ideas in. we will use mine and reavers fleets from yesterday, "roughly" 20 narn versus 14 EA.
EA win initiative, narn move first, then have the pleasure of moving 5 ships last, where is my benefit?.
So, EA win initiative. Narn have a 6 ship advantage, on turn one, they must move half of that advantage, ea move as normal, on turn 2, Narn must move the rest of their advantage, then it all goes to normal. EA should get the last move, the winning of initiative gave them a distinct advantage for two turns (6 ships moved to 2), and they get the last move.
Of course if the Narn win initiative, they get to move all their extra ships last as normal.
No idea how this would work, was just a random passing thought,

 

[Target]

We haven't really had a problem with horde vs few but thats probably because of the redundancy system we have put into our house rules.

 

[Triggy]

We haven't really had a problem with horde vs few but thats probably because of the redundancy system we have put into our house rules.

Exactly - the swarm fleets are only really a problem due to survivability from criticals (on large ships). Lose this problem and the principle of a swarm being a problem goes away.

The flipside of having few initiative sinks is that your firepower is concentrated in fewer ships and therefore more can be fired before your opponent (in the same way as squadroning ships has pros and cons).

 

[vitalis6969]

Well, CBT DOES have init mods, in the optional rules for units in the Field Manuals, but I know what you mean. The boresight issue is a very pertinent one, especially in the example given of a Drazi fleet vs. a Shadow ship. Unfortunately at the moment that shadow ship will be getting tons of boresights under the current rules, even when it wins initiative.

Well, another way to simply take care of this problem is get rid of boresight all together since it is prolly the most dumb-a$$ed idea ever put forward. Battletech works because even in the grim dark future of walking robots they can sight their weapons independantly and torso turn.

-V

 

[emperorpenguin]

Well, another way to simply take care of this problem is get rid of boresight all together since it is prolly the most dumb-a$$ed idea ever put forward. Battletech works because even in the grim dark future of walking robots they can sight their weapons independantly and torso turn.

-V

since there is little to no evidence for boresight I agree with you

 

[animus]

Personally I like boresight weapons - they add a cool dimension to the game. As for it not being "future" remember that the Deathstar had a boresight weapon!

 

[MarkNorfolk]

Personally I like boresight weapons - they add a cool dimension to the game. As for it not being "future" remember that the Deathstar had a boresight weapon!

A long time ago,.....

Cheers
Mark

 

[H]

I shall assume that everyone is just ignoring my suggestion then :-(

 

[Locutus9956]

Personally I like boresight weapons - they add a cool dimension to the game. As for it not being "future" remember that the Deathstar had a boresight weapon!

A long time ago,.....

Cheers
Mark

Besides, no it didnt! Watch return of the Jedi again it fires at all sorts of angles!

 

[emperorpenguin]

I shall assume that everyone is just ignoring my suggestion then :-(

what suggestion? :wink: :lol:

 

[cordas]

I shall assume that everyone is just ignoring my suggestion then

If your sugestion is to do initative backwards then I would say no. The idea of having a larger number of ships is to give an initative sink, your idea if I am reading it right makes that pointless, which would really screw BS races.

I like the house rule that was suggested at the start of the topic as it still gives int soaks a use, but it also gives an advantage to winning int. I would make one modification that if you only have 1 ship to move that it moves in the middle (rounding to the int winners advantage *), rather than last. This will avoid some of the issues of a single shadow ship being left.

* If the Shadow player has 1 Ship left and the Narn player has 4, and the SP wins int then the SS moves 3rd, if the NP looses 1 ship and the SP wins int then he still moves 3rd.

 

[H]

I shall assume that everyone is just ignoring my suggestion then

If your sugestion is to do initative backwards then I would say no. The idea of having a larger number of ships is to give an initative sink, your idea if I am reading it right makes that pointless, which would really screw BS races.

I like the house rule that was suggested at the start of the topic as it still gives int soaks a use, but it also gives an advantage to winning int. I would make one modification that if you only have 1 ship to move that it moves in the middle (rounding to the int winners advantage *), rather than last. This will avoid some of the issues of a single shadow ship being left.

* If the Shadow player has 1 Ship left and the Narn player has 4, and the SP wins int then the SS moves 3rd, if the NP looses 1 ship and the SP wins int then he still moves 3rd.

thats fair enough, but it DOES give a veritable advantage to the initiative winner, and thats what we want isn't it? come on guys, lets brain storm here!