2e Suggestion - initiative

[animus]

I hope it's not too late in the process for this idea to be checked, but since it's a common house rule I think it should be looked into.

When one side wins initiative for a turn, they get to move last, regardless of the number of ships.

The way we play is that the loser moves a ship then the winner and back and forth as usual. When the intitiative winner has only one ship left, he holds it until the loser moves all the rest of his, thus getting a final move. It's simple, works well and seems fairer.

 

[Burger]

 

[Shadow Queen]

when we play the winner gets to choose first or second

 

[Locutus9956]

when we play the winner gets to choose first or second

Erm correct me if Im wrong here but that is just the normal rules.

The idea behind the houserule is that it helps to counteract the problem of swarm fleets having a massive advantage over a few big ships on initiative.

 

[Triggy]

My suggestion would be somewhat more radical than that (although certainly too radical to be implemented) - all Patrol ships are moved via the current IGO, UGO mechanism with the initiative winner choosing to go first or second, then all Skirmish ships (only after both sides have finished all of their Patrol ships), then all Raid ships and so on.

Your suggestion has merit though. However, do you think this will be such a big deal when larger ships are more valuable (i.e. they don't just get critted to death by swarms)?

 

[Shadow Queen]

when we play the winner gets to choose first or second

Erm correct me if Im wrong here but that is just the normal rules.

The idea behind the houserule is that it helps to counteract the problem of swarm fleets having a massive advantage over a few big ships on initiative.

So what??

 

[katadder]

My suggestion would be somewhat more radical than that (although certainly too radical to be implemented) - all Patrol ships are moved via the current IGO, UGO mechanism with the initiative winner choosing to go first or second, then all Skirmish ships (only after both sides have finished all of their Patrol ships), then all Raid ships and so on.

Your suggestion has merit though. However, do you think this will be such a big deal when larger ships are more valuable (i.e. they don't just get critted to death by swarms)?

except this works in opposite of what should happen. big ships are easier to figure out where they would be going as they are ponderous whereas the little ones are quicker and more agile so would be able to react better.

 

[Locutus9956]

So: The idea behind the houserule is that it helps to counteract the problem of swarm fleets having a massive advantage over a few big ships on initiative.

Stop fishing for an argument. If you dont want to use the houserule then dont but just saying saying 'we let whoever wins the rule choose' is like saying 'we roll dice to see if you hit or not'.

 

[cordas]

My suggestion would be somewhat more radical than that (although certainly too radical to be implemented) - all Patrol ships are moved via the current IGO, UGO mechanism with the initiative winner choosing to go first or second, then all Skirmish ships (only after both sides have finished all of their Patrol ships), then all Raid ships and so on.

Your suggestion has merit though. However, do you think this will be such a big deal when larger ships are more valuable (i.e. they don't just get critted to death by swarms)?

except this works in opposite of what should happen. big ships are easier to figure out where they would be going as they are ponderous whereas the little ones are quicker and more agile so would be able to react better.

Hmmm not sure, if you play big ships before little ships this would be hugely unfair against those races that have boresight weapons. That said I do agree with your reasoning that the big ships should move before smaller ones.... I think its one of those nice ideas that won't work in game turns.

As for the original suggestion.... I LIKE IT. I will be suggesting this to my fellow ACTA players and see what they think, and if they don't like it I will knee cap them. Although I can't see them disagreeing as I tend to play Centari and they tend to play Earth and Narn......

If its not to late I think this suggestion should be shoe horned into 2e, unless it has completely re-written how initiative is worked out and played, making this irrelevant.

 

[H]

So: The idea behind the houserule is that it helps to counteract the problem of swarm fleets having a massive advantage over a few big ships on initiative.

Stop fishing for an argument. If you dont want to use the houserule then dont but just saying saying 'we let whoever wins the rule choose' is like saying 'we roll dice to see if you hit or not'.

you roll dice?! :shock:

 

[Burger]

'we roll dice to see if you hit or not'.

You do? Most of us have weapons that always hit, the attack roll is to see if it does damage or not

This post brought to you by Pedands R Us!

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You do? Most of us have weapons that regularly miss, but we ignore this fact to streamline game mechanics to an unnecessary degree

This post fixed for you by Gamers for To-Hit Rolls, your friendly neighbourhood gaming pressure lobby.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I like the BattleTech approach to this - any time you have twice as many units to move as your opponent, move 2 (or move 3 if you have 3 times as many, etc)

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

'we roll dice to see if you hit or not'.

You do? Most of us have weapons that always hit, the attack roll is to see if it does damage or not

This post brought to you by Pedands R Us!

"Pedants"

 

[katadder]

I like the BattleTech approach to this - any time you have twice as many units to move as your opponent, move 2 (or move 3 if you have 3 times as many, etc)

i think thats one of the best ideas really. although does mean a shadowship is unlikely to ever be boresighted by any of the early EA ships which is a problem.
differance with CBT is theres no init mods. unlike here where theres anything from -3 upto +6.
in the above example an EA fleet of even 100 hyperions is unlikely to beat a single shadowship unless there some bad rolls from the shadow player. this being due to the shadowship always moving last (or at least most the time with that differance in init rolls).

this init suggestion whilst good in theory unbalances boresight fleets further against the older races as the boresight fleets are also the fleets with the lowest inits at least out the main races.

 

[Reaverman]

The Battletech method is a good idea, and it came up during the tourney at IDGaming. TBH, it might also mean that there would be less chance of the Narn 'Bat squad' and encourage larger ships to be deployed!

 

[katadder]

like i said though there is the drawback here that we have init mods and boresight weapons. battletech doesnt have those problems which is why their system works.
i would like the system in place cos i do like big ships, just dont see it fitting so well with ACTA.

 

[Reaverman]

like i said though there is the drawback here that we have init mods and boresight weapons. battletech doesnt have those problems which is why their system works.
i would like the system in place cos i do like big ships, just dont see it fitting so well with ACTA.

I can see how the initiative mods, would have the effects on Boresight. The point is, the Superior Shadows' take a Battlecrab, and win iniative. But face a Narn swarm, and have to forfeit the game. Since effectively, even though they can win iniative, they get ganked from all directions.

Currently the way the rules run, there is too much in favour of swarm and little for the small number of hard hitters. With the Advent of 2e, new beam rules, and the existing iniative. The swarm fleets, are going to maul big ships.

 

[Triggy]

like i said though there is the drawback here that we have init mods and boresight weapons. battletech doesnt have those problems which is why their system works.
i would like the system in place cos i do like big ships, just dont see it fitting so well with ACTA.

I can see how the initiative mods, would have the effects on Boresight. The point is, the Superior Shadows' take a Battlecrab, and win iniative. But face a Narn swarm, and have to forfeit the game. Since effectively, even though they can win iniative, they get ganked from all directions.

Currently the way the rules run, there is too much in favour of swarm and little for the small number of hard hitters. With the Advent of 2e, new beam rules, and the existing iniative. The swarm fleets, are going to maul big ships.

That's really not what we've seen so far in playtesting. Large ships are much more survivable and therefore really pull their weight against smaller ships. You really don't want to be facing a large ship (with at least some accompanying fleet) with nothing one PL below it or bigger.

 

[animus]

I don't want to complicate the game too much. I'd probably be adverse to the Battletech idea because of the complication, but I'd be willing to try it before making up my mind.