2e publishing suggestions

[RayB]

Hi Matt,

Seriously, why alphabetical?

Cheers,

RayB

 

[Triggy]

Weapons listed by arc is immensely more useful than anything else.

In your opinion of course.

We've already had more than one person expressing a preference for each set of formatting

I don't understand your position at all in this, Trig. As a person who is constantly trying to interest new players I keep hearing the weapon list complaint a lot. If it weren't for the stat sheets/cards put out by fans (thanks Burger and Chern), I don't think I could get a second game. It's illogical to me to list weapons by range or chronology or ancestry, (however, I could be convinced to list maybe by the color of the beam or by "zap" sounds vs. "ka-thump" sounds).

Explain to me the logic of range listing for game play. I think for game play, it has to be by arc - show me another game that has arcs that don't list them that way.

As for turret, that's another arc. The order of the arc listings wouldn't be as big a deal as the grouping of same arc weapons together, but a logical one might be B, F, S, P, A, B(a), T.

Basically it's to do with the phases of the game. As your ship closes, a new weapon system comes into play but before that point it is useless. It also makes for quicker assessments of overall firepower of a ship (longer-ranged guns tend to be heavier in firepower). I admit there are benefits to the "by arc" approach but i find this distracts me with having to skip weapons that are out of range before you get to the next gun that can shoot.

 

[lastbesthope]

Hi Matt,

Seriously, why alphabetical?

Cheers,

RayB

Maybe because it's a system most players know already, if you're looking for a White Star, you know it starts with W, you don't have to remember which PL it is to find it.

LBH

 

[animus]

I think he meant alphabetical weapons listing, not ships.

 

[Obsidian]

First list weapons on the ship stat pages by firing arc - group them that way, not by range or dice, but by arcs. this will really help the usability of the books.

I've been campaigning for that since the first release. It was one of the first things I did when I created the shipviewer since I find the listings in the books to be completely useless.

Turret should go first as it is always applicable.

That is highly debatable actually. For example, it makes sense to list the Torpedoes on a Xixx first since that is their primary weapon. For everyone else who has short ranged anti-fighter weapons it is a waste of space since 80 - 90 percent of the time nothing will be in range and you have to skip over the line to look at the weapons that are actually in range.

 

[katadder]

aren't they mostly organised by weapon types which are done with longest range weapons 1st?
doing it by weapon range is best as then as you enter each range you look a bit further down the page, at least IMO.

 

[RayB]

Actually I mean the entire arrangement.

Ships (fleet list): Priority level/in service date.

Ships weapons: Range/Arc(T/B/F/P/S/A/B(a))/firepower

Weapons 'special': what sort of weapon is it (Beam, mini Beam, normal, Twin-Linked),
then if its got AP (Super AP, AP, normal, weak),
then if its precise (precise, normal, imprecise (why doesn't this rule exist?)),
then if its Slow Loading (Normal, Slow Loading when crippled, Slow Loading),
then if it has a damage multiplier (x1, x2, x3, x4!).

Special rules: Scout (or Advanced Scout) and Command +n, and end with Shuttles and Troops (put troops under special rules!).

Cheers,

RayB

 

[RayB]

Obsidian,

But if the weapon was as you say short ranged it would be last in the list because of the range order!

Cheers,

RayB

 

[animus]

Ships weapons: Range/Arc(T/B/F/P/S/A/B(a))/firepower

YUCH! I can't think of a worse arrangement!


Matt, group by arc, really, just do it.

 

[RayB]

Yuch! What the heck does that mean!?

Don't wanna be infringing on any forum rules I've missed but these are the weapons for a Warlock my style. If this is a no no, I'm sure a Mod can delete this message for me (or ask me to do it).

ARMAMENT_ RANGE_ AD_ SPECIAL_ ARC
Heavy Particle Cannon_ 35_ 6_ Beam, SuperAP, x3_ Bore
Missile Rack_ 30_ 6_ SuperAP, Precise, SL_ Front
Rail Gun_ 20_ 8_ AP, x2_ Front
Rail Gun_ 20_ 4_ AP, x2_ Aft
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Front
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Port
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Starboard
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Aft
Particle Beams_ 6_ 6_ Anti-Fighter_ Turret

'Your' Arc order would have it as:

ARMAMENT_ RANGE_ AD_ SPECIAL_ ARC
Particle Beams_ 6_ 6_ Anti-Fighter_ Turret
Heavy Particle Cannon_ 35_ 6_ Beam, SuperAP, x3_ Bore
Missile Rack_ 30_ 6_ SuperAP, Precise, SL_ Front
Rail Gun_ 20_ 8_ AP, x2_ Front_
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Front
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Port
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Starboard
Laser/Pulse Arrays_ 12/15_ 5/10_ Beam, AP/T-L_ Aft
Rail Gun_ 20_ 4_ AP, x2_ Aft

Maybe its just a sense of statistical aesthetics, but I prefer my way. I feel its 'more' functional.

Cheers,

RayB

 

[animus]

Sorry Ray don't agree at all.

During a game, I've found I move a ship and then see who I should shoot at. I see a ship in front of mine and want to know what guns are up there to fire. Really, you want them grouped by arcs first so you can see what you have. Grouping them in alphabetically may look nice, but it plays for crap.

Example: Warlock
Arc/name/range/ad/special

Boresight: Heavy particle cannon/ 35" etc.

Front: Railgun / 18" etc.
Laser-Pulse Array / 15" etc.
Missile Rack / 30" etc.

Starboard: Laser-Pulse Array / 15" etc.

Port: Laser-Pulse Array / 15" etc.

Aft: Railgun / 18" etc.
Laser-Pulse Array / 15" etc.

Turret: Particle Beams / 6" etc

(I like turret last, because they seldom fire and are usually anti-fighter, but that's me)

This way you don't have to hunt through a list to determine that you can unload serious whoopass with 5 weapon systems at a borsesighted target 6" away. Really, it helps. Play a few games, with unfamiliar ships and you'll see. Look at the Adira for or K'Bin'Tak to see where arc listing is really needed.


Look at Burger's shipviewer to see exactly what I mean - every arc is listed in the same order making each easy to locate even if there is no weapon in that arc. Very easy to use and helpful in games.

 

[RayB]

No need to be sorry. They're simply opinions, both without horrible flaws as best I can tell! :wink:

I think they are both functional methods, 'I' just prefer my arrangement, guess it comes from playing BFG too much!

Cheers,

RayB

 

[Corum]

I don't know if it's possible or why they were left out, but a few of the people I play with wished the Pak Ma'ra (Plasma-using carrion eaters) would be included.

Couldn't find them anywhere on the website or in the rules. Forgive my ignorance if they are already out.

P.S. Weapons listed by arc, IMO.

 

[locarno24]

If the carrier ability is gone, would it really make sense for the ship to be able to recover and repair and indeterminable ammount of flights?

No. But the command deck and comms/radar array may still be functioning (it's feasibly in a different part of the ship, after all), so the dogfight bonus would still apply!

I don't know if it's possible or why they were left out, but a few of the people I play with wished the Pak Ma'ra (Plasma-using carrion eaters) would be included.

Couldn't find them anywhere on the website or in the rules. Forgive my ignorance if they are already out.

Their list is in a Signs and Portents issue....41, I think.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/detail.php?qsID=1408&qsSeries=13

 

[Triggy]

aren't they mostly organised by weapon types which are done with longest range weapons 1st?
doing it by weapon range is best as then as you enter each range you look a bit further down the page, at least IMO.

Exactly my point of view too

 

[animus]

They're not organized much at all; they may start as "range" but then the lists go south and lose all consistency.

I'm not arguing for the removal of the range column, just for the logical grouping by arc, then range, if you like.

 

[Chernobyl]

That's it, I've just decided the order of weapons list on my 2E cards...

Arc (B/F/P/T/S/A/Ba) > Range > AD, traits alphabetical.

I picture you looking down on the ship from above and then looking at it front to back, thats the order I'll list the arcs.

Chern

 

[animus]

Perfect Chern.

 

[Shadow Queen]

I shoot at what I can see in the fore template arc then I turn the template to the aft.

Just wating to get the 2nd edition B4 restarting demoing ACTA.

Animus u ever get into the Mongoose Demo team?

 

[animus]

No demo team yet - had to get a job! I'm hopeful for the launch of 2e though. I have painted up many fleets to use and generate interest. If only I could pull the guys away from all the FOW stuff for half an hour, I'd have them hooked.