2300AD - A suggestion

[sda5691]

OK, where are we getting 'Lutke neutered the Kafer' from?
2320 has Lutke dropping deadfall ordinance on a Kafer colony that also had human prisoners on it, but it wasn't one of the major worlds in the GV Loop.
The paradrenaline inhibitor was developed by the Outward Visions Pentapod sect and delivered to the French. The decision to drop a bioweapon on both worlds of the Kafer home system was a joint decision by Emperor Ruffin and the ESA heads of state [probably just Germany, the UK, and France]. Even the Fleets didn't know about it until they got their orders [likely hand delivered by courier].
But when the Terran Reserve Fleet drops the bioweapon at GV, Lutke was off doing his 'Bull Halsey' thing laying waste to Triumphant Destiny's worlds.

<Note to self: caffeine before commentary>

Okay, I miswrote the "neutering" comment, having forgot "..the Kaefer home worlds." This doesn't apply to the remainder of Kaefer Space, certainly, which is why Lutke went ballistic on those Kaefer worlds closer to Human Space. The threat isn't completely gone, nor will it ever truly be until either one species or the other is eradicated or evolve into something higher. But there's less chance of a series of "nth Kaefer Wars" with the paradenaline inhibitor ready to deploy.

Of course, strategic planners may ask themselves if the Pentapods have something similar they can drop on us.

 

[ottarrus]

<Note to self: caffeine before commentary>

Okay, I miswrote the "neutering" comment, having forgot "..the Kaefer home worlds." This doesn't apply to the remainder of Kaefer Space, certainly, which is why Lutke went ballistic on those Kaefer worlds closer to Human Space. The threat isn't completely gone, nor will it ever truly be until either one species or the other is eradicated or evolve into something higher. But there's less chance of a series of "nth Kaefer Wars" with the paradenaline inhibitor ready to deploy.

Of course, strategic planners may ask themselves if the Pentapods have something similar they can drop on us.

Well, one would expect that after the events of Grendelsaga [where they sampled a minimum of two humans] that they probably do. Which is not entirely good considering the attitudes of the Dark Gods.
But one existential human die back event at a time, I suppose....

 

[ottarrus]

The French tend to (re)fight their last war.

But, they are faster learners than the Russians.

'You're always ready for your last war' is a problem with every military. The real problem with France's military twofold:
- They simply don't have the GNP to be 'agile' to emerging threats procurement-wise; not many countries do
- That sticky Gallic pride... and it isn't as if we Americans don't have a [large] dose of that ourselves.

 

[ottarrus]

You find out that the top tier of kafers are permanently smart and do a deal with them, as they don't want to be genocided either.

But since you mentioned the French, they would eat them, fried in garlic and butter.

If I were to guess, they're more likely to do that with the 'Pods!
"Greetings madames et miseures. Tonight our chef has prepared Franque Grille' with caramelized onions and sauce au beurre et à l'ail..." [Grilled Frank with butter garlic sauce]

 

[ottarrus]

<Note to self: caffeine before commentary>

Okay, I miswrote the "neutering" comment, having forgot "..the Kaefer home worlds." This doesn't apply to the remainder of Kaefer Space, certainly, which is why Lutke went ballistic on those Kaefer worlds closer to Human Space. The threat isn't completely gone, nor will it ever truly be until either one species or the other is eradicated or evolve into something higher. But there's less chance of a series of "nth Kaefer Wars" with the paradenaline inhibitor ready to deploy.

Of course, strategic planners may ask themselves if the Pentapods have something similar they can drop on us.

Did you mean 'neutralizing'? The comment makes a bit more sense that way.

 

[boggo2300]

If I were to guess, they're more likely to do that with the 'Pods!
"Greetings madames et miseures. Tonight our chef has prepared Franque Grille' with caramelized onions and sauce au beurre et à l'ail..." [Grilled Frank with butter garlic sauce]

Franks as in French and Germans? Charlamange would not approve!

 

[ottarrus]

 

[Condottiere]

It's the Rhein.

It's very divisive.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Franks as in French and Germans? Charlamange would not approve!

Neither would Oscar Mayer.

 

[Condottiere]

I'll take famous French frankfurters, for a hundred, Alex.

 

[lategamer]

I've played as a Colonist on Aurora when the Kafer arrived.
A Military specialist on Arcturus Station
A member of the relief force also on Aurora

This is the way to go with 2300AD IMO. Colonials. Aliens. Leaning more into things like Earth 2, A Whole New World, Colony, heck, even AVATAR. My gut was that 2010: The Year We Make Contact felt like the stuff back home. Tensions, etc. But the Colonists being somewhat insulated from it...So there may be policy decisions from Home which influence colonies.

So a mix of alien colony life and politics from home.

 

[paltrysum]

I wonder if there is a market for a stripped down core rule book that needs a setting book, or make your own setting.

This comment might be better suited to a completely different thread, but what does everyone think of the current movement to produce simpler rule systems? For example, Shadowdark as the completely stripped-down, rules-light version of D&D. I think of our audience here as probably opposed to the idea for Traveller, but maybe you'll prove me wrong. Could a similar approach be taken with Traveller? Or does its focus on complex technologies prevent us from doing something like that?

I do like your idea of nixing all the references to the 3I in the CRB, @Sigtrygg. I think we still approach it as 'jump-drive forward', meaning... offer up the jump drive/gravitics/psionics version of Traveller first, but by removing setting-specific passages, I think we'd feel freer to offer up alternatives (warp drive, no FTL at all, different forms of propulsion, etc.) without the feeling of momentum dragging us back to the 3I setting-specific bias. The Traveller CRB could truly be presented as a setting-neutral sci-fi RPG, which might make it more appealing to a general audience.

Going back to 2300AD, it is very important to us here and we will be doing spectacular new things with the game and its setting in the future.

 

[Vormaerin]

Not sure what you would strip out of Traveller at the CRB level, as far as rules go. The game mechanics are actually quite simple. Chargen is pretty simple. The actual game mechanic of 2d6 + Stat + Skill is dead simple. Combat doesn't have any complex mechanisms.

All the complexity is in entirely optional systems that most of the player base isn't interacting with already (Robot building, ship building, vehicle building, advanced world/system building). I'd bet hard that the majority of people just use the examples in the Robot Handbook, High Guard, Vehicle Handbook, etc and (at most) do a little tweaking of existing things.

 

[Sigtrygg]

This comment might be better suited to a completely different thread, but what does everyone think of the current movement to produce simpler rule systems? For example, Shadowdark as the completely stripped-down, rules-light version of D&D. I think of our audience here as probably opposed to the idea for Traveller, but maybe you'll prove me wrong. Could a similar approach be taken with Traveller? Or does its focus on complex technologies prevent us from doing something like that?

I think I have made similar requests in other threads, I thought I had mentioned it in the future of Traveller discussion thread Matt started, if not I will add it, helps bring that thread back to the front page

I do like your idea of nixing all the references to the 3I in the CRB, @Sigtrygg. I think we still approach it as 'jump-drive forward', meaning... offer up the jump drive/gravitics/psionics version of Traveller first, but by removing setting-specific passages, I think we'd feel freer to offer up alternatives (warp drive, no FTL at all, different forms of propulsion, etc.) without the feeling of momentum dragging us back to the 3I setting-specific bias. The Traveller CRB could truly be presented as a setting-neutral sci-fi RPG, which might make it more appealing to a general audience.

Rather than cut all references to the Imperium, which is a setting to show what the rules do after all, the core rules could drop occasional references or use other settings in their examples. Mentioning Pioneer, Dark Conspiracy, T2300 in examples throughout the core rule book would highlight that other settings are possible.

Going back to 2300AD, it is very important to us here and we will be doing spectacular new things with the game and its setting in the future.

I'm looking forward to it - provolutionists and pentapods please... P³

 

[paltrysum]

Not sure what you would strip out of Traveller at the CRB level, as far as rules go. The game mechanics are actually quite simple. Chargen is pretty simple. The actual game mechanic of 2d6 + Stat + Skill is dead simple. Combat doesn't have any complex mechanisms.

A few off-the-cuff ideas:

• Task Difficulty: It adds color, which is fun, but could we nix it and just make 8+ the target for everything with negative DMs to reflect added difficulty. Just shotgunning that out there without thinking of the implications.
• Slots instead of kg for gear. You can carry one Slot of gear per point of STR or something like that. I'd be surprised if 1% of Traveller players are adding up the weight of Travellers' gear and using the Encumbrance rules as is. Referees probably only resort to it if the Travellers seem to be violating the rule by trying to lug everything but the kitchen sink on an expedition.
• Gear packages for Traveller 'types' (e.g., explorer, colonist, mercenary, trader, etc.). This one gets a vacc suit and a body pistol. This one gets an ACR and flak jacket, etc. I'm not sure whether gear purchase is an impediment to new players or not, but handing out a 'basic pack' for various Traveller types might simplify things and get them playing faster.
• Simplify some skills, ditching their specialties. Gun Combat comes to mind.
• Ditch Initiative. Daggerheart has an innovative way of handling Initiative: It doesn't exist! Let the Travellers hash it out, but those who shoot, stab, punch or otherwise attempt to inflict damage absorb more attention from their foes.

What other ideas do you have? Keep in mind, the typical Traveller player just wants to make Star Trek, Firefly, or Star Wars happen, or whatever novel they're reading, video game they're playing, etc. Most don't want the crunch. The crunch has to be there to make the system internally consistent, but we have to be able to mask it for those folks who just want to get their space opera on, shoot some laser pistols, and fly through the asteroid belt.

 

[Sigtrygg]

A few off-the-cuff ideas:

• Task Difficulty: It adds color, which is fun, but could we nix it and just make 8+ the target for everything with negative DMs to reflect added difficulty. Just shotgunning that out there without thinking of the implications.

Scrap then in the rules light version, add them in the full core rulebook or in a companion. If they ar used then they need to be modified, the 2 step is too little for a 2d6 spread.

• Slots instead of kg for gear. You can carry one Slot of gear per point of STR or something like that. I'd be surprised if 1% of Traveller players are adding up the weight of Travellers' gear and using the Encumbrance rules as is. Referees probably only resort to it if the Travellers seem to be violating the rule by trying to lug everything but the kitchen sink on an expedition.

This I could go fo, bot to you mean a 3 litre slot or a 55 litre slot.. (sorry couldn't resist)

• Gear packages for Traveller 'types' (e.g., explorer, colonist, mercenary, trader, etc.). This one gets a vacc suit and a body pistol. This one gets an ACR and flak jacket, etc. I'm not sure whether gear purchase is an impediment to new players or not, but handing out a 'basic pack' for various Traveller types might simplify things and get them playing faster.

This.

• Simplify some skills, ditching their specialties. Gun Combat comes to mind.

I would reduce the skill list considerable, few broad skills plus specialistaions.

• Ditch Initiative. Daggerheart has an innovative way of handling Initiative: It doesn't exist! Let the Travellers hash it out, but those who shoot, stab, punch or otherwise attempt to inflict damage absorb more attention from their foes.

Initiative is one of the hardest things for any rpg to get right.

What other ideas do you have? Keep in mind, the typical Traveller player just wants to make Star Trek, Firefly, or Star Wars happen, or whatever novel they're reading, video game they're playing, etc. Most don't want the crunch. The crunch has to be there to make the system internally consistent, but we have to be able to mask it for those folks who just want to get their space opera on, shoot some laser pistols, and fly through the asteroid belt.

More guidance on making bespoke settings.

 

[Vormaerin]

A few off-the-cuff ideas:

• Task Difficulty: It adds color, which is fun, but could we nix it and just make 8+ the target for everything with negative DMs to reflect added difficulty. Just shotgunning that out there without thinking of the implications.
• Slots instead of kg for gear. You can carry one Slot of gear per point of STR or something like that. I'd be surprised if 1% of Traveller players are adding up the weight of Travellers' gear and using the Encumbrance rules as is. Referees probably only resort to it if the Travellers seem to be violating the rule by trying to lug everything but the kitchen sink on an expedition.
• Gear packages for Traveller 'types' (e.g., explorer, colonist, mercenary, trader, etc.). This one gets a vacc suit and a body pistol. This one gets an ACR and flak jacket, etc. I'm not sure whether gear purchase is an impediment to new players or not, but handing out a 'basic pack' for various Traveller types might simplify things and get them playing faster.
• Simplify some skills, ditching their specialties. Gun Combat comes to mind.
• Ditch Initiative. Daggerheart has an innovative way of handling Initiative: It doesn't exist! Let the Travellers hash it out, but those who shoot, stab, punch or otherwise attempt to inflict damage absorb more attention from their foes.

What other ideas do you have? Keep in mind, the typical Traveller player just wants to make Star Trek, Firefly, or Star Wars happen, or whatever novel they're reading, video game they're playing, etc. Most don't want the crunch. The crunch has to be there to make the system internally consistent, but we have to be able to mask it for those folks who just want to get their space opera on, shoot some laser pistols, and fly through the asteroid belt.

True, task difficulties are a waste of space and I don't bother with them. But you do have a few rules (Like in Robots) that use them, albeit not in a fashion I consider particularly helpful. I just don't know if that really "simplifies" anything. Whether you are saying it is a task check at -2 or a 10+ is pretty much six of one, half dozen of the other as far as I am concerned.

Unless you go full on paperdoll like Torchbearer, I doubt slots'll be any more useful than listing in kg. There's no encumbrance system that actually gets most tables on board in any system, unless (like Torchbearer) it practically *is* the game. It's a lost cause and kg will appeal to the tiny number of people who do care more than slots will. IME, anyway.

Starting gear wouldn't hurt. But can be kind of setting specific, so *shrugs*

You could sort out skills. I doubt you'll get concensus on what's good and what's bad. There are people out there making cepheus games that are splitting Steward into three skills, after all... Personally, I think Engineering & Athletics having specialties is bonkers. And I'd totally make Astrogation a specialty of Pilot (spaceship pilot, astrogation, aerospace pilot). Wouldn't hurt anything, but not something I'd consider making or breaking the game complexity wise.

I'm sure there's some more elegant way to do the combat system, certainly. Only thing I think that it really needs is a clear delineation on what's suitable for playing John Wick type action and what's appropriate when you are going all Band of Brothers. And, frankly, that's almost entirely the armor system being a mess. The weapons are pretty straightforward.

 

[Vormaerin]

I guess what I'm saying is that, yeah, there's definitely things that can be cleaned up in how the Traveller game works, but I think those would all just be errata/adding clarity. I don't see any of that as "stripping the rules down" or making them simpler, as in having fewer component parts.

Mongoose has already pretty much done that by going back to CT style careers instead of the Book 4/5/6/7 or funky systems like T:NE. And making combat pretty theater of the mind.

On an unrelated note: my big Traveller heresy would be to ditch SOC as a "Social Status" and just make it your socialability trait. If someone wants to be an Imperial noble, they can get it a knighthood on the mustering out tables or make the 10+ enrollment in the Nobility career

 

[paltrysum]

No danger of that. Despite the various controversies about it, I'm a big SOC fan. I call for it all the time in my games, to the chagrin of those players who made it their dump stat.

 

[mavikfelna]

SOC is always my dump stat, followed by STR because both are hardly ever used in skill or combat tasks.
Conversely, EDU and then either INT or DEX, depending on character type are always top and next most important because they are over represented and the skills associated with them are used more often and are more important to most game outcomes.

For a "face" character I would probably make SOC more important than last but unless I was making a noble it would never be an important stat.

No danger of that. Despite the various controversies about it, I'm a big SOC fan. I call for it all the time in my games, to the chagrin of those players who made it their dump stat.