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[MedievalSteve]

Adding small craft changes the ship. The Finalise step should just be about adding up and checking the ship.

Adding small craft changes the crew hence quarters, so I have to go to several steps to adjust the ship.
Adding small craft in clamps changes the size of the ship hence drive size hence fuel hence crew hence quarters, so I have to rebuild half the ship in the finalise step...


Note tonnage is not mass, it's size (space).

In HG, 1 ton = 1 displacement ton ≈ 14 m³. Space, not mass.


So, as e.g. small craft in clamps or drop tanks are added the size of the total craft changes which impacts drive size, fuel allocation, etc.


It would be much more convenient if small craft were added at the same time as the docking type, and the clamp/hangar/docking space was automatically sized for the selected small craft. I.e. let the user select a small craft and a docking type and let the software do the necessary calculations.

I'll have a longer think about this, and how to implement that kind of change. Added to my list for consideration.

 

[MedievalSteve]

Dark mode is implemented, you can change the appearance by clicking on the little "sun" or "moon" icon :

 

[MedievalSteve]

Adding small craft changes the ship. The Finalise step should just be about adding up and checking the ship.

Adding small craft changes the crew hence quarters, so I have to go to several steps to adjust the ship.
Adding small craft in clamps changes the size of the ship hence drive size hence fuel hence crew hence quarters, so I have to rebuild half the ship in the finalise step...


Note tonnage is not mass, it's size (space).

In HG, 1 ton = 1 displacement ton ≈ 14 m³. Space, not mass.


So, as e.g. small craft in clamps or drop tanks are added the size of the total craft changes which impacts drive size, fuel allocation, etc.


It would be much more convenient if small craft were added at the same time as the docking type, and the clamp/hangar/docking space was automatically sized for the selected small craft. I.e. let the user select a small craft and a docking type and let the software do the necessary calculations.

I'm working on this right now. I just want to calrify it fully completely before I commit to any of the changes I am making.

When a small craft / vehicle is added to an External Docking Clamp, the total weight of the small craft/vehicle is added to the overall SIZE of the ship. It does not decrease the available volume inside. This is how the app currently behaves (I will be moving the "Assign Ship to Docking Clamp" function into the Optional Systems step instead/in addition too the separate final step).

Currently, the system then recalculates the actual output of the installed engines based on the now increased overall size (it does this for external cargo pods, too). This is listed on ths Ship Sheet as EFFECTIVE DRIVE POWER, (this is inline with the rules that state "A ship’s Thrust and jump capability must be recalculated when another ship occupies its docking clamp, using the combined tonnage of both ships. This likely means the manoeuvre drive will be operating at a lower Thrust and the jump capability is reduced."):


When a small craft / vehicle is added to an installed internal docking system (such as a construction deck, docking space or full hanger) its size is not added to the ship size, and it does not reduce the available volume within the ship - this is because it is taking up volume within an already set aside bank of volume (ie. the Full Hanger is sized to fit a 90 ton small craft already. That 90 tons is already taken out of the Ships Available volume (regardless of there being a vehicle docked in it currently or not).

When you add an internal space, it already prompts you to indicate the volume of the space (based on the rules which state "Docking space consumes an amount of tonnage equal to that of the largest ship to be docked, plus 10% (round up to the nearest ton)") :


A potential missing piece is the presence of additional crew for small craft operations, as there is no explicit "Additional Crew for Small Craft" input box.
However, crew levels are fully adjustable by the user, and it does already automatically increase the recommended number of Pilots, Engineers and Maintenance Crew each time a Small Craft is added to the ship (following the rules on the table on Page 23).

I can implement an automatic allocation of a number of staterooms equal to the total number of "Assigned" crew:

However, that is problematic for several reasons. What if the build includes Optional crew quarters types (like a Barracks)? Or if the ship designer decides that everybody who is not an Officer or higher is assigned to a double occupancy stateroom so they don't need to install staterooms at a 1-to-1 rate?

Currently the app does show how many 'beds' are needed for the crew, and how many have been assigned, on the staterooms page (I'll change the order so crew show at the top, and passengers underneath them):

It will automatically update Power Plant / Fuel reserves properly in the next update (that system broke at some point and I hadn't noticed), so you shouldn't have to jump back and forth for the size of Power Plant and Fuel Reserves every time you make another change.

Will this address all of the concerns you had about this particular set of issues? I have been working on fixing all of the other things you have raised as well.

 

[MedievalSteve]

Okay, a huge update (or two) have been served up. I really appreciate everybody testing and reporting issues, and am trying to work through all of your feedback.

Please take a look (there's a full changelog in the app if you want to see exactly what I've been doing).

 

[AnotherDilbert]

When a small craft / vehicle is added to an External Docking Clamp, the total weight of the small craft/vehicle is added to the overall SIZE of the ship. It does not decrease the available volume inside.

Agreed.

Currently, the system then recalculates the actual output of the installed engines based on the now increased overall size (it does this for external cargo pods, too). This is listed on ths Ship Sheet as EFFECTIVE DRIVE POWER, (this is inline with the rules that state "A ship’s Thrust and jump capability must be recalculated when another ship occupies its docking clamp, using the combined tonnage of both ships. This likely means the manoeuvre drive will be operating at a lower Thrust and the jump capability is reduced."):

Quite, so if you take a Scout and add 50 Dton of external small craft, pod, or external cargo it is now a 150 Dt craft with drive performance 1.333, rounded to 1.

View attachment 6068

I would prefer something like "Hull only/With external load" to make it obvious, but that is a matter of taste?

When a small craft / vehicle is added to an installed internal docking system (such as a construction deck, docking space or full hanger) its size is not added to the ship size, and it does not reduce the available volume within the ship - this is because it is taking up volume within an already set aside bank of volume (ie. the Full Hanger is sized to fit a 90 ton small craft already. That 90 tons is already taken out of the Ships Available volume (regardless of there being a vehicle docked in it currently or not).

Agreed.

When you add an internal space, it already prompts you to indicate the volume of the space (based on the rules which state "Docking space consumes an amount of tonnage equal to that of the largest ship to be docked, plus 10% (round up to the nearest ton)") :
View attachment 6067

Quite, but a docking space or even hangar is for a specific craft. A docking space is just space for the craft plus an inch or so margin.

It's just easier for the user to select an "Air/raft" or a "Launch" (magical names from the dawn of Traveller) than to look up a tonnage in a book... If you make a list of common small craft and vehicles you can also store and automatically apply the required crew of the craft.

There are generic docking facilities for any craft, at least for space stations:

High Guard 2022, p67:
Docking Facility
...
The largest space stations are capable of receiving ships within internal bays. This provides ships with protection and makes their repair or the transfer of goods and passengers much easier.

This kind of docking facility consumes three tons for every ton of the largest ship it is capable of handling or the total tonnage of ships it can handle at any one time (so, a 6,000 ton docking facility can hold ships totalling up to 2,000 tons).

For every ton they consume, docking facilities cost MCr0.25. They also need 1 crewman for every 100 tons.

A potential missing piece is the presence of additional crew for small craft operations, as there is no explicit "Additional Crew for Small Craft" input box.
However, crew levels are fully adjustable by the user, and it does already automatically increase the recommended number of Pilots, Engineers and Maintenance Crew each time a Small Craft is added to the ship (following the rules on the table on Page 23).

That rule is a bit elastic if you look at the small example ships in HG. Extra pilot&crew for small craft/vehicles is generally not added for just a craft or two, but is added for several carried craft...

Hopefully the software should be able to recreate the iconic ships from Traveller history, such as the Free Trader, the Fat Trader (p189), and the Patrol Corvette (p187) with no extra small craft/vehicle crew.

View attachment 6069

If you stored this as recommended crew (calculated) + extra crew (user input [incl. negaitive], stored) = assigned crew, the assignment would survive changes in the ship.

I can implement an automatic allocation of a number of staterooms equal to the total number of "Assigned" crew:

However, that is problematic for several reasons. What if the build includes Optional crew quarters types (like a Barracks)? Or if the ship designer decides that everybody who is not an Officer or higher is assigned to a double occupancy stateroom so they don't need to install staterooms at a 1-to-1 rate?

That's where percentages come in. Assign "beds" as a percentage of required minimum, deduct other accomodations (High Staterooms, barracks, etc.), the rest in standard staterooms, and add common areas as a percentage of total tonnage.
Simple and survives any change to the ship.

I do something like this, here for three crew (grey fields are user input):

If I specify barracks for one, the rest is recalculated around that:

And with Dual occupancy:

Dual occupancy is a defaulted setting with passengers in full staterooms, officers in full staterooms (IIRC), crew in half (rounded up).

So, even if I add a few thousand tons to a cruiser to fit all the goodies, crew and accommodation assignment can automatically scale without user input.

Currently the app does show how many 'beds' are needed for the crew, and how many have been assigned, on the staterooms page (I'll change the order so crew show at the top, and passengers underneath them):

You know how many beds are needed, how beds are assigned, but still require the user to reconcile that manually?
Wouldn't it be much easier (for the user) to let the computer do that, as it already knows whats needed and can do it much faster and more accurately than a mere human?

Everything the computer can offload from the human user makes ship design faster, easier, and presumably more enjoyable?

Will this address all of the concerns you had about this particular set of issues? I have been working on fixing all of the other things you have raised as well.

I'm sure I'll find something more to complain about, but that is hopefully the important stuff...

 

[Terry Mixon]

I tried to pin down @MongooseMatt about crew housing and argued that officers should be in singles. He disagreed. I ended up settling for three singles and everyone else doubled on military crews. If you go with all officers in singles, no design will match what the staterooms in the books are.

 

[Arkathan]

List of small craft: Terry Mixon has done that for all published craft. Tab 9a on my sheet. Password is Password, unhide hidden fields to the right of the page. Get his permission and make sure you credit him if you use it.

 

[Terry Mixon]

List of small craft: Terry Mixon has done that for all published craft. Tab 9a on my sheet. Password is Password, unhide hidden fields to the right of the page. Get his permission and make sure you credit him if you use it.

You have my permission.