Garnfellow
Banded Mongoose
Do gunners have to physically sit in the turret or could you have a gunner station on the bridge?
Where's that Gunner Sit?
- Thread starter Garnfellow
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AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Yes.
That means either or both.
In the dawn of time LBB2 talked about gunners in the turrets, but in LBB5 military ships had fewer gunners than turrets, and they where often assumed to sit in a gunnery room or perhaps the bridge on smaller ships.
I generally assume small civilian ships don't have much extra space on the bridge for gunners, so the gunners man the turrets. On the other hand naval ships have dedicated gunnery rooms.
That means either or both.
In the dawn of time LBB2 talked about gunners in the turrets, but in LBB5 military ships had fewer gunners than turrets, and they where often assumed to sit in a gunnery room or perhaps the bridge on smaller ships.
I generally assume small civilian ships don't have much extra space on the bridge for gunners, so the gunners man the turrets. On the other hand naval ships have dedicated gunnery rooms.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
The image of a gunner sitting in a ball turret aiming a laser at a target moving at 100km/s 10,000km away is preposterous,
The gunner's job is to select the optimum firing solution provided by the gunnery software and press the button to authorise the machinery firing.
The gunner could be sitting in the crew lounge using their smartphone to perform this task.
The gunner's job is to select the optimum firing solution provided by the gunnery software and press the button to authorise the machinery firing.
The gunner could be sitting in the crew lounge using their smartphone to perform this task.
ShawnDriscoll
Cosmic Mongoose
Gunners can be at home, using Zoom.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Sigtrygg said:
Sure, but then we would not need any gunner at all, or perhaps just a single gunnery coordinator designating targets for all weapons systems.
Since the rules require about a gunner (or two) per turret, I would say it implies that the gunners are a bit more involved in the process.
Reynard
Cosmic Mongoose
While reading the Drinaxian Companion under the Crew Requirement section I see gunners have duty stations on the bridge. Makes sense as the tech should allow weapon control remotely rather than hands on analog. The second gunner assists such as ordinance reloads if no auto load and maintenance or repair in and out of combat. The Harrier class though only features one gunner per weapon so it's an option to have two.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's one of those legacy things that the writers probably picked up from the Great Patriotic War, and players from A New Hope.
For the one tonne turret, though not necessarily for the five tonne barbette, it's kinda hard to figure out how to squeeze in a half tonne work station, especially crammed in with another three or four default sized weapon systems; and three to sixteen reloads.
For the one tonne turret, though not necessarily for the five tonne barbette, it's kinda hard to figure out how to squeeze in a half tonne work station, especially crammed in with another three or four default sized weapon systems; and three to sixteen reloads.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
AndrewW said:
The two gunners per turret on military ships never made much sense to me, especially considering how often turrets are actual in use – those crew probably should have a second job most of the time. I understand the three pilots, for all shifts, but I would think it would be more important to specify some sensor operators and on big ships, more than one astrogator, because even though they might get less hourly use than gunners, you really absolutely have to have one if you plan on going anywhere.
But in any case, I don't see why they couldn't operate the turret from a workstation, crew lounge or bunk if necessary. Except for reloading, though there ought to be autoloaders for that.
I don’t know how a starship energy weapon will work in the future, but I’m pretty confident that they will break down. An old ship with a 40 year old beam laser will have its quirks, and an experienced gunner located at the turret will learn that you have to reboot the lower left communication box after five shots, otherwise conductor seven will need replacement.
Turrets with autoloaders for missiles and sand canisters will sooner or later malfunction during combat. If the gunner operates the turret remotely, the gunner sits idle while a technician rushes to the turret and fixes the problem. If the gunner is located at the turret, the gunner can immediately start the troubleshooting in person. A gunner located in the turret can also detect that “new” sound and react before something breaks down.
Turrets with autoloaders for missiles and sand canisters will sooner or later malfunction during combat. If the gunner operates the turret remotely, the gunner sits idle while a technician rushes to the turret and fixes the problem. If the gunner is located at the turret, the gunner can immediately start the troubleshooting in person. A gunner located in the turret can also detect that “new” sound and react before something breaks down.
Geir said:
For a military vessel I tend to run it as only one gunner per weapon system (excl. spinals) is required to fire the weapon. They sit in the CIC/gun control room and have the Gunner and Electronics (sensors) skills. All other "gunners" are maintenance personnel responsible for maintaining the weapons systems and their ammunition (if any), they have the Gunner and Mechanic skills (and Explosives for ammunition personnel).
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Reynard
Cosmic Mongoose
"Depends on the type of ship, military ships normally use 2 per turret, others are typically 1 per turret."
"The two gunners per turret on military ships never made much sense to me, especially considering how often turrets are actual in use – those crew probably should have a second job most of the time. I understand the three pilots, for all shifts, but I would think it would be more important to specify some sensor operators and on big ships, more than one astrogator, because even though they might get less hourly use than gunners, you really absolutely have to have one if you plan on going anywhere."
"But in any case, I don't see why they couldn't operate the turret from a workstation, crew lounge or bunk if necessary. Except for reloading, though there ought to be autoloaders for that."
"Maintenance of the turrets and any missiles carried falls
to the gunners, but in action their duty stations are
normally on the bridge, with loading of weapons left to
the autoloader or any personnel who can be reassigned
to bring fresh missiles in from the magazine."
So yeah, the two gunners have other duties involving their assigned gun leaving engineering and maintenance free for other ship duties. Having the primary crew operating from the bridge allows more efficient interaction while secondary crew deal with the hands on work.
"The two gunners per turret on military ships never made much sense to me, especially considering how often turrets are actual in use – those crew probably should have a second job most of the time. I understand the three pilots, for all shifts, but I would think it would be more important to specify some sensor operators and on big ships, more than one astrogator, because even though they might get less hourly use than gunners, you really absolutely have to have one if you plan on going anywhere."
"But in any case, I don't see why they couldn't operate the turret from a workstation, crew lounge or bunk if necessary. Except for reloading, though there ought to be autoloaders for that."
"Maintenance of the turrets and any missiles carried falls
to the gunners, but in action their duty stations are
normally on the bridge, with loading of weapons left to
the autoloader or any personnel who can be reassigned
to bring fresh missiles in from the magazine."
So yeah, the two gunners have other duties involving their assigned gun leaving engineering and maintenance free for other ship duties. Having the primary crew operating from the bridge allows more efficient interaction while secondary crew deal with the hands on work.
The naval campaign book implies that cross-training with other departments is fairly common, so presumably a lot of those gunners also have Admin, Engineering, Maintenance, Pilot, and Electronics (other than Sensors), etc.
And they'll naturally have a lot of people who can pull shifts on the non-gunnery sensor stations.
And they'll naturally have a lot of people who can pull shifts on the non-gunnery sensor stations.
Ursus Maior
Banded Mongoose
A warship can never have too much crew as spares for damage control. I figure the first gunner per turret is the main gunner, while the second is an assistant gunner who learns general engineering and gunnery, before being promoted to main gunner at some point. That would actually be neatly in line with character generation in the core rules.Garran said:
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Most gunners on warships are presumably middle management. There are layers upon layers of decisions and management between an Admiral giving the order "Engage the Enemy" and a lowly Gunner firing at a specific ship with a specific firing pattern, expecting certain countermeasures.
So, I would expect half the gunners on warships to man the actual weapons, and the other half decides what to shoot at and when, or relays the resulting orders.
The answer (in MgT2), I believe, to the original question is both: One gunner sits in the turret and one gunner sits in CIC/Gunnery Centre/Bridge.
LBB5 touched on this by explicitly requiring middle management as a part of the gunnery crew, in addition to she shooters.
Nothing of this applies to a Free Trader, of course. I don't assume that small civilian ships comes with a lot of extra bridge space and workstations for every conceivable aftermarket additional equipment that can be installed. Basically there is no space for a bunch of very optional gunners on the bridge, hence crew for additional equipment, such as turrets, sits in the additional equipment, specifically turrets.
So, I would expect half the gunners on warships to man the actual weapons, and the other half decides what to shoot at and when, or relays the resulting orders.
The answer (in MgT2), I believe, to the original question is both: One gunner sits in the turret and one gunner sits in CIC/Gunnery Centre/Bridge.
LBB5 touched on this by explicitly requiring middle management as a part of the gunnery crew, in addition to she shooters.
Nothing of this applies to a Free Trader, of course. I don't assume that small civilian ships comes with a lot of extra bridge space and workstations for every conceivable aftermarket additional equipment that can be installed. Basically there is no space for a bunch of very optional gunners on the bridge, hence crew for additional equipment, such as turrets, sits in the additional equipment, specifically turrets.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's schizophrenic, though I don't know if this is deliberately so.
There is the elimination of the battery option under control of a single gunner, which sorta implies that the writers want to shoehorn in gunners into the turrets.
Modern fire control tends to be an automation of the weapon systems, and the centralization of fire control.
There is the elimination of the battery option under control of a single gunner, which sorta implies that the writers want to shoehorn in gunners into the turrets.
Modern fire control tends to be an automation of the weapon systems, and the centralization of fire control.
Bense
Banded Mongoose
It's a damage control question, isn't It? If the gunner is at or in his turret then you won't lose fire control for that weapon unless you lose the actual weapon. If the gunner is somewhere else then a loss of control linkages or the fire control center where all the gunners are sitting means you lose your weapons too.
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