This is Free Trader Beowulf: Errata
- Thread starter Geir
- Start date
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
I don't know whether to categorise this as a nit, fit, or snit:
p. 79: "Paranoia Press' work on The Beyond and the Vanguard Reaches... which is how the sectors exist today."
I clobbered those sectors again with the Spinward Extents in 2022. Not trying to write myself into the book, just being pedantic.
p. 79: "Paranoia Press' work on The Beyond and the Vanguard Reaches... which is how the sectors exist today."
I clobbered those sectors again with the Spinward Extents in 2022. Not trying to write myself into the book, just being pedantic.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Outside back cover:
(part fixed)
Last edited:
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
(fixed)
Last edited:
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Re-post from other thread
The dead give away is the title of the chapter in LBB:2 - Experience
As I said, there is no XP point system and no levels (which is how I would word it), but there is and always has been a way to develop your character. In CT it was no faster than character generation, and I can guarantee you it was used.
So on page 28 I would change it to "no experience points or levels" (those players claiming there was no experience in Traveller obviously couldn't read the section in LBB:2
Page 30 (pdf 31)"Space Quest also allowed characters
to gain and improve skills with experience, something not possible in
Traveller" is factually incorrect and reinforces mistaken beliefs about the game and rules.
page 31 "
That began with Mike Ferguson’s two-part article ‘The
Experienced Traveller’ in White Dwarf #9 (October/November 1978)
and #10 (December 1978/January 1979), an early rebellion against
Traveller’s lack of an experience system."
Again promoting a mistaken belief - Traveller had an experience system, it lacked an XP system.
pqge 34 "The system would have been Traveller-based, with its classless,
experienceless system." XP-less system, Traveller has an experience chapter.
The same claim again on page 122 - "
characters could now gain experience during play.
(Whether classic Traveller’s lack of experience rules made logical
sense or not, it definitely went against the expectations of the gaming
field by 1987.)" - again factually incorrect
You imply HG was first in this bit: page 43 (pdf 44)
The dead give away is the title of the chapter in LBB:2 - Experience
As I said, there is no XP point system and no levels (which is how I would word it), but there is and always has been a way to develop your character. In CT it was no faster than character generation, and I can guarantee you it was used.
So on page 28 I would change it to "no experience points or levels" (those players claiming there was no experience in Traveller obviously couldn't read the section in LBB:2
Page 30 (pdf 31)"Space Quest also allowed characters
to gain and improve skills with experience, something not possible in
Traveller" is factually incorrect and reinforces mistaken beliefs about the game and rules.
page 31 "
That began with Mike Ferguson’s two-part article ‘The
Experienced Traveller’ in White Dwarf #9 (October/November 1978)
and #10 (December 1978/January 1979), an early rebellion against
Traveller’s lack of an experience system."
Again promoting a mistaken belief - Traveller had an experience system, it lacked an XP system.
pqge 34 "The system would have been Traveller-based, with its classless,
experienceless system." XP-less system, Traveller has an experience chapter.
The same claim again on page 122 - "
characters could now gain experience during play.
(Whether classic Traveller’s lack of experience rules made logical
sense or not, it definitely went against the expectations of the gaming
field by 1987.)" - again factually incorrect
You imply HG was first in this bit: page 43 (pdf 44)
However simultaneous with the publication of High Guard, GDW
was also taking the first, tentative steps to develop (and publish) a
universe all their own.p/quote]
The quote in LBB:4 1978
This to me shows they had the Imperial setting in their mind to publish as far back as 1978.
!979 brought us A:1 Kinunir which detailed the Imperium as a setting in broad (and later to be retconned) strokes,
LBB:5 rephrases the setting mentioned in LBB:4, Supplement 3 gives us the Spinward marches and a description of the Imperium (which immediately had me thinking about Foundation and Gibbon's History of the decline and Fall of the Roman Empire)
The final Supplement of 1979 was Citizens of the Imperium, which other than the title only mentions Imperial twice in reference to Darth Vader
Why conceit instead of concept? I notice a lot of Americans use conceit when concept is a more appropriate word.
Yatima
Cosmic Mongoose
Also reposting from another thread:
Page 26:
Shannon refers to the Irish Science Fiction Writer E. C. Tubb when explaining the British spelling of Traveller. Wasn't Tubb English? Born and died in London, though there may be some Irish connection I'm not aware of?
Page 66:
Should that be 'AFV Association'? Shannon's APC is correct.
Page 70:
Page 77:
Page: 105:
Page 110:
Page 115:
Page 119:
Page 144:
Page 26:
Shannon refers to the Irish Science Fiction Writer E. C. Tubb when explaining the British spelling of Traveller. Wasn't Tubb English? Born and died in London, though there may be some Irish connection I'm not aware of?
Page 66:
Page 70:
Should be 'not'
should be 'various types' or perhaps 'at various times'?
Page 77:
should be 'lose'?
Brian Ansell
Page: 105:
'then' repeated
Page 110:
should this say '... had appeared two years before ...'?
Page 115:
Last digit of the year is missing.
Page 119:
remove 'being'?
Page 144:
should be 'sudden'?
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GabrielGABFonseca
Cosmic Mongoose
Page 54: "However, Fifth Frontier War was more just a history, as it could be used by Traveller players to determine the future of the war that their roleplaying character were then experiencing"
Pretty sure this should be "More than just a history".
Pretty sure this should be "More than just a history".
appelcline
Banded Mongoose
Thanks Folks! I don't know how many times I've been over the book (likely at least four drafts on each chapter, plus a review of the initial edit, plus a few weeks worth of overview on the layouts), let alone Matt & Charlotte plus various beta readers. So it's really great we live in a world where other folks are able to look at the PDF before things go to press.
Here's what I sent off to Sandrine, who's did the amazing layout & art direction of the book, which should be everything up to this point. The goal was to not shift any of her layout at this point, but still address anything.
--
* PAGE 3: change
Hans Rancke
to
Hans Rancke-Madsen
* PAGE 3: Change
Jenell
To:
Jennell
* PAGE 26: change:
Irish science-fiction writer
to:
English science-fiction writer
* PAGE 28: change:
In fact, there was no possibility for skill improvement in classic Traveller. That is because Miller felt that people in life did not improve much over time, so there was no training and no experience. Traveller was not the first such game to go that way, as a few early RPGs such as Metamorphosis Alpha (1976) and even GDW’s own En Garde! had omitted experience but it was still a rarity. In fact, in those early days of the roleplaying hobby, some fans said that Traveller was not an RPG due to the lack of experience (demonstrating that the wars over what was an RPG, also an issue for En Garde!, continued onward).
to:
In fact, there was only limited, long-term skill improvement in classic Traveller. That is because Miller felt that people in life did not improve much over time. Traveller was not the first such game to go that way, as a few early RPGs such as Metamorphosis Alpha (1976) and even GDW’s own En Garde! had omitted experience entirely but it was still a rarity. In fact, in those early days of the roleplaying hobby, some fans said that Traveller was not an RPG due to its limited and constrained experience system (demonstrating that the wars over what was an RPG, also an issue for En Garde!, continued onward).
* PAGE 30: change
something not possible
to:
something largely not possible
* PAGE 31: change
lack of an experience system
to:
limited experience system
* PAGE 34: change
classless, experienceless
to:
classless, XP-less
* PAGE 41: change
first, tentative steps
to:
earliest, tentative steps
* PAGE 45: change
Then then there
to:
Then there
* PAGE 54: change
was more just a history
to:
was more than just a history
* PAGE 63: Change
Jenell
To:
Jennell
* PAGE 66: change
an interest group for 'Armored Fighting Vehicles'.
to:
an interest group for armored fighting vehicles.
* PAGE 70: change
were nott
to:
were not
* Page 74: change
of various times
to:
of various types
* PAGE 77: change
would not only lost
to:
would not only lose
* PAGE 77: change
Bryan Anshell
to:
Bryan Ansell
* PAGE 78: change
although miniatures formed
to:
Although miniatures formed
(e.g., capitalize that first word)
* PAGE 79: change
which is how the sectors exist today.
to:
which is how the sectors existed until the publication of The Spinward Extents (2022).
* PAGE 105: change
Then then GDW
to:
Then GDW
* PAGE 107: change
DGP on surveying a world,u
to:
DGP on surveying a world,
(that is, remove the extra u at the end)
* PAGE 110: change
DGP, who had appeared two years
to:
DGP, who had appeared just two years before
* PAGE 115: change
Traveller license in 198
to:
Traveller license in 1985
* PAGE 119: change
despite the RPGs being largely subsidising the wargaming lines!
to:
despite the RPGs largely subsidising the wargaming lines!
* PAGE 122: change
lack of experience rules
to:
limited experience system
* PAGE 144: change
suddenly explosion
to
sudden explosion
* PAGE 206: change
GURPs
to:
GURPS
(it's the first usage of GURPS on the page and the only one where the s isn't capitalized like it should be.)
* PAGE 216: change
that he hadd
to:
that he had
* PAGE 279: change
else they hadd
to:
else they had
* OUTSIDE BACK COVER
I actually haven't seen the outside back cover, but these were reported:
Outside back cover: "did GDW decided" should be "did GDW decide"
Outside back cover: is "xxDesigners & Dragons System History" meant to be there?
(this should be: a Designers & Dragons System History
or else the Designers & Dragons logo with System History on it, not sure what's exactly shown)
Here's what I sent off to Sandrine, who's did the amazing layout & art direction of the book, which should be everything up to this point. The goal was to not shift any of her layout at this point, but still address anything.
--
* PAGE 3: change
Hans Rancke
to
Hans Rancke-Madsen
* PAGE 3: Change
Jenell
To:
Jennell
* PAGE 26: change:
Irish science-fiction writer
to:
English science-fiction writer
* PAGE 28: change:
In fact, there was no possibility for skill improvement in classic Traveller. That is because Miller felt that people in life did not improve much over time, so there was no training and no experience. Traveller was not the first such game to go that way, as a few early RPGs such as Metamorphosis Alpha (1976) and even GDW’s own En Garde! had omitted experience but it was still a rarity. In fact, in those early days of the roleplaying hobby, some fans said that Traveller was not an RPG due to the lack of experience (demonstrating that the wars over what was an RPG, also an issue for En Garde!, continued onward).
to:
In fact, there was only limited, long-term skill improvement in classic Traveller. That is because Miller felt that people in life did not improve much over time. Traveller was not the first such game to go that way, as a few early RPGs such as Metamorphosis Alpha (1976) and even GDW’s own En Garde! had omitted experience entirely but it was still a rarity. In fact, in those early days of the roleplaying hobby, some fans said that Traveller was not an RPG due to its limited and constrained experience system (demonstrating that the wars over what was an RPG, also an issue for En Garde!, continued onward).
* PAGE 30: change
something not possible
to:
something largely not possible
* PAGE 31: change
lack of an experience system
to:
limited experience system
* PAGE 34: change
classless, experienceless
to:
classless, XP-less
* PAGE 41: change
first, tentative steps
to:
earliest, tentative steps
* PAGE 45: change
Then then there
to:
Then there
* PAGE 54: change
was more just a history
to:
was more than just a history
* PAGE 63: Change
Jenell
To:
Jennell
* PAGE 66: change
an interest group for 'Armored Fighting Vehicles'.
to:
an interest group for armored fighting vehicles.
* PAGE 70: change
were nott
to:
were not
* Page 74: change
of various times
to:
of various types
* PAGE 77: change
would not only lost
to:
would not only lose
* PAGE 77: change
Bryan Anshell
to:
Bryan Ansell
* PAGE 78: change
although miniatures formed
to:
Although miniatures formed
(e.g., capitalize that first word)
* PAGE 79: change
which is how the sectors exist today.
to:
which is how the sectors existed until the publication of The Spinward Extents (2022).
* PAGE 105: change
Then then GDW
to:
Then GDW
* PAGE 107: change
DGP on surveying a world,u
to:
DGP on surveying a world,
(that is, remove the extra u at the end)
* PAGE 110: change
DGP, who had appeared two years
to:
DGP, who had appeared just two years before
* PAGE 115: change
Traveller license in 198
to:
Traveller license in 1985
* PAGE 119: change
despite the RPGs being largely subsidising the wargaming lines!
to:
despite the RPGs largely subsidising the wargaming lines!
* PAGE 122: change
lack of experience rules
to:
limited experience system
* PAGE 144: change
suddenly explosion
to
sudden explosion
* PAGE 206: change
GURPs
to:
GURPS
(it's the first usage of GURPS on the page and the only one where the s isn't capitalized like it should be.)
* PAGE 216: change
that he hadd
to:
that he had
* PAGE 279: change
else they hadd
to:
else they had
* OUTSIDE BACK COVER
I actually haven't seen the outside back cover, but these were reported:
Outside back cover: "did GDW decided" should be "did GDW decide"
Outside back cover: is "xxDesigners & Dragons System History" meant to be there?
(this should be: a Designers & Dragons System History
or else the Designers & Dragons logo with System History on it, not sure what's exactly shown)
Last edited:
ThornPlutonius
Mongoose
I am glad to have found this forum/thread. I just pre-ordered the book and was not informed that the pdf was still under development. I am sad that Mongoose is depending upon early purchasers to do their proofreading for them. But, that appears to be the state of RPG publishing these days. Now, if they can just fix the pdf so that all of the images display properly for me on my iMac and iPad. About half of them are just hinted at by a blank box where they should be.
Yatima
Cosmic Mongoose
Going to start a new post for further errata and typos found after Shannon's latest update - thanks so much Shannon for such a great book, I am engrossed in it, and thanks for being so responsive here to the feedback.
Page 171:
Page 174:
Page 176:
Page 206:
Page 216:
Page 220:
Page 244:
Page 263:
Page 279:
Page 286:
And that's that, just finished my first read-through. Thoroughly enjoyed the book!
Page 171:
change issued to issue
change adverting to advertising
Page 174:
I think this should reference the Gulf War Fact Book as the publication that failed to sell.
Page 176:
change would to had
again, I think this should reference the Gulf War Fact Book
Page 206:
change if to it
Page 216:
change hadd to had and overviewed to overseen
Page 220:
change began to became
Page 244:
Change contained to continued
Page 263:
change to 'such as rules for androids'
Page 279:
Change hadd to had
Page 286:
change hass to has
And that's that, just finished my first read-through. Thoroughly enjoyed the book!
Last edited:
GabrielGABFonseca
Cosmic Mongoose
Page 74: "Gamelords' premiere lines were Thieves' Guild (1980) and The Free City of Haven (1981) which together compromised a Variant D&D (VD&D) game system and setting."
"Compromised" should most likely be "comprised".
"Compromised" should most likely be "comprised".
appelcline
Banded Mongoose
Thanks again folks. This is what I just sent over to Sandrine. The errors listed by @Yatima that are not on here (which was just a few of the early ones) are already corrected in the April 19th update (which I believe also corrected the MacOS issue).
Per @ThornPlutonius, I think it's a real advantage in the modern day that publishers can produce a PDF and then collect errors before the book goes to press. A number of publishers now use this methodology. This is my first book where that's been the case, since my last major release was a decade ago.
It's not that books are being proof-read less. (Here, I had 3-10 beta readers on every chapter, and I did 3-4 editorial passes on every chapter besides that, then Matthew edited it and Charlotte proofread it, then we continued to check it and recheck it on layouts until the official PDF was produced.) Errors slip through, it's just the nature of the beast. Sometimes they're things I wrote two years ago, sometimes a correction I made at the last minute, sometimes an edit gone wrong, sometimes a layout tweak. But thanks to being able to release a PDF and then wait a bit for the print run, and thanks to kind readers being willing to report errors, we end up with final books and PDFs that are frankly cleaner than they would have been a decade ago. (So thanks once more!)
--
# Page 62: change
didnot received
to:
did not receive
# Page 73: change
own Far Futures
to:
own Far Frontiers
# Page 111: change
itself.As
to:
itself. As
[that is, the space is missing]
# Page 120: change
throne,and
to:
throne, and
[another missing space]
# Page 128:
change:
The resulted
to:
This resulted
# Page 131:
change:
it moved forward the timeline,
to:
it moved the timeline forward,
# Page 136:
change:
and there would
to:
and there would be
# Page 171:
change:
Imperium Stable
to:
Imperium Staple
# Page 172:
Let's clarify the end of the first paragraph by changing:
(July 1994), by which
to:
(July 1994). By this
[that is, we're breaking it into two sentences as a reader rightly commented the current is a little hard to understand.]
# Page 174:
Change:
Desert Shield Fact Book
to:
Gulf War Fact Book
# Page 176:
Change:
Desert Shield Fact Book
to:
Gulf War Fact Book
[yep, same as the previous one]
# Page 192:
change:
would only been
to:
had only been
# Page 204:
change:
with element
to:
with elements
# Page 205:
change:
BITS author Martin J. Dougherty
to:
BITS authors Martin J. Dougherty and Timothy Collinson
[if there's space without messing up the flow!]
# Page 215:
change:
probably looks like
to:
probably looked like
# page 216:
change:
10 2005
to:
ten 2005
[that may go against Mongoose style guide, but I agree with the reader that it's much easier to read than the two numbers together]
# Page 220:
change:
began simpler
to:
became simpler
# Page 242:
change:
had also be offering
to:
had also begun offering
# Page 244:
change:
commercial book
to:
commercial books
# Page 244:
change:
publication contained
to:
publication continued
# Page 247:
change:
Similarly, BITS’ Andy Lilly produced a trilogy of universal GM’s books,
to:
Similarly, BITS authors saw many of their little white books compiled into
# Page 263
Change:
such rules for androids
To:
such as rules for androids
# Page 282:
change:
Elemental Class
to:
Element Class
# Page 286:
change:
It hass
to:
It has
# Page 289:
change:
Elemental Class
to:
Element Class
Per @ThornPlutonius, I think it's a real advantage in the modern day that publishers can produce a PDF and then collect errors before the book goes to press. A number of publishers now use this methodology. This is my first book where that's been the case, since my last major release was a decade ago.
It's not that books are being proof-read less. (Here, I had 3-10 beta readers on every chapter, and I did 3-4 editorial passes on every chapter besides that, then Matthew edited it and Charlotte proofread it, then we continued to check it and recheck it on layouts until the official PDF was produced.) Errors slip through, it's just the nature of the beast. Sometimes they're things I wrote two years ago, sometimes a correction I made at the last minute, sometimes an edit gone wrong, sometimes a layout tweak. But thanks to being able to release a PDF and then wait a bit for the print run, and thanks to kind readers being willing to report errors, we end up with final books and PDFs that are frankly cleaner than they would have been a decade ago. (So thanks once more!)
--
# Page 62: change
didnot received
to:
did not receive
# Page 73: change
own Far Futures
to:
own Far Frontiers
# Page 111: change
itself.As
to:
itself. As
[that is, the space is missing]
# Page 120: change
throne,and
to:
throne, and
[another missing space]
# Page 128:
change:
The resulted
to:
This resulted
# Page 131:
change:
it moved forward the timeline,
to:
it moved the timeline forward,
# Page 136:
change:
and there would
to:
and there would be
# Page 171:
change:
Imperium Stable
to:
Imperium Staple
# Page 172:
Let's clarify the end of the first paragraph by changing:
(July 1994), by which
to:
(July 1994). By this
[that is, we're breaking it into two sentences as a reader rightly commented the current is a little hard to understand.]
# Page 174:
Change:
Desert Shield Fact Book
to:
Gulf War Fact Book
# Page 176:
Change:
Desert Shield Fact Book
to:
Gulf War Fact Book
[yep, same as the previous one]
# Page 192:
change:
would only been
to:
had only been
# Page 204:
change:
with element
to:
with elements
# Page 205:
change:
BITS author Martin J. Dougherty
to:
BITS authors Martin J. Dougherty and Timothy Collinson
[if there's space without messing up the flow!]
# Page 215:
change:
probably looks like
to:
probably looked like
# page 216:
change:
10 2005
to:
ten 2005
[that may go against Mongoose style guide, but I agree with the reader that it's much easier to read than the two numbers together]
# Page 220:
change:
began simpler
to:
became simpler
# Page 242:
change:
had also be offering
to:
had also begun offering
# Page 244:
change:
commercial book
to:
commercial books
# Page 244:
change:
publication contained
to:
publication continued
# Page 247:
change:
Similarly, BITS’ Andy Lilly produced a trilogy of universal GM’s books,
to:
Similarly, BITS authors saw many of their little white books compiled into
# Page 263
Change:
such rules for androids
To:
such as rules for androids
# Page 282:
change:
Elemental Class
to:
Element Class
# Page 286:
change:
It hass
to:
It has
# Page 289:
change:
Elemental Class
to:
Element Class
Yatima
Cosmic Mongoose
Thanks Shannon, I can't wait to get my hands on the printed version. I've enjoyed this book so much – it's given me a deeper understanding of the game, how it was produced, why it took the directions it did in various periods and I have found the whole story deeply fascinating.
Thank you.
J
Thank you.
J
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Lol, if only Mongoose had adopted this practice before printing the £100 deluxe core rule book update...
this simple change has resulted in much better books so well worth it IMHO. I'd rather have an error checked book three or more months after the pdf release that is mostly error free than opening a crisp new book and seeing "see page XX" everywhere
this simple change has resulted in much better books so well worth it IMHO. I'd rather have an error checked book three or more months after the pdf release that is mostly error free than opening a crisp new book and seeing "see page XX" everywhere
apastuszak
Banded Mongoose
You need someone not familiar with the work to get a good proofreading done. Until it goes out to the masses. there will always be some mistakes. Until thousands of fresh eyes look at it, you won't be able to catch it all.
appelcline
Banded Mongoose
Yeah, I definitely know that I have diminishing returns on my own reads, once I stop rewriting and move on to just corrections.
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