5th frontier war board game revival?

[enpeze2]

now that the 5th frontier war is coming again, how about a revival of the board game? A improved and streamlined second editon would be great.

 

[Sigtrygg]

How would you streamline it?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Discussions... are being had...

 

[ottarrus]

Discussions... are being had...

Good to hear!

 

[enpeze2]

Discussions... are being had...

Thats super to hear. Such a wargame featuring the 5th frontier war could be used as a background game for the campaign. Playing it parallel to the rpg campaign and implementing the results could lead to very interesting roleplay situations.

Unfortunately the current game is a little bit difficult to play IMO. All the planning ahead the fleet moves is too mindboggling for me. Also the percentage loss for troop counters and system defense forces is way out dated for a modern wargame. but nonetheless the idea of combing a wargame with a military centered rpg is super appealing to me.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The future planning is the whole point of the game, it is to model the comms lag in the setting. Fleet Admirals do not have a god level view of what is going on. The player has a god level view so the future plotting mechanic means you can't respond to what happens on a turn, I can't think of another way to model this without even more complexity.

Simplifying the combat resolution should be doable.

 

[collins355]

You could do away with the percentage loss system, but you really need a combat system that allows SDBs and planetary defence forces to survive multiple rounds of combat. The whole point of the combat system is to allow sieges to develop and for SDBs to linger and create problems for an attacker who just wants to move onto the next target system.

 

[Condottiere]

Midway.

Intelligence gathering, logistics, and prepositioning.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Not even close to being the same thing.

Try it with all your intel being at least four weeks out of date.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Primary enemy objective identified - are they likely to change their minds?

2. Complicated plan to obfuscate movement of primary battle units, and objective, by despatching other task forces all over the map.

3. These other objectives would be considered sacrificial by the Admiralty.

4. Primary objective heavily fortified and reinforced.

5. Enemy assumes that they have massively kicked our butt, and that at best there are two battle groups available for operations in this theatre, which the point of the operation being to destroy or mission kill.

6. Massive efforts to repair battle damaged third battle group.

7. Fleet commander may have become more aggressive upon confirmation of the ready state of the third battle group.

8. Enemy forces surprised by the resistance of their objective, while waiting for the two battle groups to turn up, or be found by long range reconnaissance.

9. Continued attacks disrupt preparations for (another/counter) strike.

 

[Sigtrygg]

1. Primary enemy objective identified - are they likely to change their minds?

Yes, the feint is a time honoured military tactic. And all you have to go on are month old reports so you have no idea where the enemy is by the time your orders reach your ships.

2. Complicated plan to obfuscate movement of primary battle units, and objective, by despatching other task forces all over the map.

With jump 3 it is not all that complicated as the aggressor, the problem is for the defender.

3. These other objectives would be considered sacrificial by the Admiralty.

The Admiralty is too far away to make a difference. The fleet has to make its own decisions based on its own scouts that have information that is only two weeks old.

4. Primary objective heavily fortified and reinforced.

How many worlds do you have to heavily fortify and defend?

5. Enemy assumes that they have massively kicked our butt, and that at best there are two battle groups available for operations in this theatre, which the point of the operation being to destroy or mission kill.

No one is that stupid, you count hulls.

6. Massive efforts to repair battle damaged third battle group.

The agressor can repair their damage too.

7. Fleet commander may have become more aggressive upon confirmation of the ready state of the third battle group.

Which takes how long to reach them?

8. Enemy forces surprised by the resistance of their objective, while waiting for the two battle groups to turn up, or be found by long range reconnaissance.

As the aggressor you have a simple order for battle, in the event that you do not have overwhelming odds you disengage and make for secondary or tertiary objectives.

9. Continued attacks disrupt preparations for (another/counter) strike.

How do you attack something you can only know the location of a fortnight ago?

 

[Nelphine]

Disruptions would never be aimed at fleets, always static targets - shipyards, starports, logistics, planetary production, high PR value worlds. Things that dont move in 4 weeks

 

[MonsterX]

The alternative to plotting ahead would be to have a dynamic "fog of war." Not doable in a board game, but could be done in a computer game. As a player, you would still need to get used to guessing where the other player is heading. The board game's solution makes admiral's skill levels crucial. If the other player always knows exactly where you are headed, then either you aren't being devious enough or your "friend" had been peeking at your plots.

 

[Vormaerin]

I have reasonably fond memories of trying to find out where that bastard Jellicoe was and trying to catch isolated elements of the British Fleet in Jutland. Even in that relatively small theater and delays of hours, it was pretty tricky.

 

[tytalan]

Discussions... are being had...

I’m guessing that means one of or both of two things
1). Mongoose’s Traveller License might not include the box wargames and have to hammer out a licensing agreement
2). Deciding if that old style of box wargame is a profitable project. Not many of them being produced these days.

 

[Condottiere]

Remove Beatty from command.

Damn the torpedoes.

 

[Anstett]

I’m guessing that means one of or both of two things
1). Mongoose’s Traveller License might not include the box wargames and have to hammer out a licensing agreement
2). Deciding if that old style of box wargame is a profitable project. Not many of them being produced these days.

Putting into a VTT works well too.

Maps, Fog of War, all the ship data you need, etc. There are also timers you can use to force players to make more rapid decisions.

 

[Condottiere]

The reason you computerize the simulation, is the capability to visualize the information, which I find helps both at the micro and macro management.

 

[Peleliu]

I’m guessing that means one of or both of two things
1). Mongoose’s Traveller License might not include the box wargames and have to hammer out a licensing agreement
2). Deciding if that old style of box wargame is a profitable project. Not many of them being produced these days.

I would argue that today is a golden age for boxed wargames. Look at the GMT website to see how many they currently have and are in the que.

Perhaps a partnership between Mongoose, FFE, and GMT (or another wargame company) would be able to produce something that appeals to a wider audience than we are used to.

 

[MongooseMatt]

1). Mongoose’s Traveller License might not include the box wargames and have to hammer out a licensing agreement
2). Deciding if that old style of box wargame is a profitable project. Not many of them being produced these days.

The trick, I think, is finding a partner who knows more about boardgames than we do (not really our jam). As I say, discussions are being had - our objectives are that the game is modernised (in gameplay as well as components) while retaining its core, and that it is marketed properly (so it does not just drop off the face of the Earth - Traveller deserves better than that).

Remove Beatty from command.

A bit unfair