Zistorwal: the Clanking City

[Dead Blue Clown]

I wanted to wait until my outline was firm and I'd started writing the book before posting this, but I've cracked enough word count on it now to figure this was the time. I wanted it to look more like a question/conversation than like I was reaching for ideas.

Then something else came up that made me not want to post it today, but... Whatever. Here we are.

Out of interest, what are you expecting from this book, and what are you hoping to see? Note that I don't mean from a standpoint of listing things I 'should never' or 'must definitely' include. I mean, are there any questions about the Machine City you've always wanted an answer to, or any aspects of Zistorwal that you'd like to see some focus on?

That kinda stuff.

If you're wondering what's going to be in it, the answer is pretty simple - at least insofar as I can say while writing it and being under NDA.

"Have you read page 104 of Glorantha: the Second Age? Have you read chapter 2 of Magic of Glorantha? The Clanking City is full of more stuff like that."

I understand that since most people won't have seen Magic yet, the question is harder to answer with any clarity of what I'm working from. But we're basically looking at a means of being/hanging out with the sorcerous aristocracy of the city. Or a means of sneaking in and killing them, if that's the way you'd rather roll.

If there's any interest after a week or so, I might post my Introduction to it. Depends, natch, on how I end up spinning the Intro around. I tend to do it first, then write the rest of the book, then change the Intro accordingly.

I like to be backwards.

 

[Trifletraxor]

I'd love a half-half regional setting / scenario book, something like River of Craddles, but I guess the page count will be too limited for that. Maybe the first half, with a scenario comming up after it?

SGL.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

I'd love a half-half regional setting / scenario book, something like River of Craddles, but I guess the page count will be too limited for that. Maybe the first half, with a scenario comming up after it?

SGL.

I'm desperate to fit a scenario in; it's plotted out with NPCs and scenes and everything already. I figure it might be the one and only time in my life I get to legimately call something A Spanner in the Works and keep a straight face.

My problem is that the book could be 12 pages or 12,000 and I'd still have more background stuff to say. But, yeah, I'm hoping to say all the worthwhile stuff and still have a nice scenario chapter at the back. Time will tell.

 

[Voriof]

A book covering a small region in some detail would be wonderful. A 1/3 setting (peope, places, things, histories, future rammifications), 1/3 background rules (cults, creatures, organizations, Zistorite War Machines, etc) and 1/3 scenario (uses for the aforementioned sections) is a nice blend.

Its a good chance to cover some of the things only brushed on in G:tSA and Magic in detail.

Were I writing such a book (on, say, Slontos), I'd use it as a chance to do some sample long-desc cults which go into the kind of detail Gloranthans seem to love.

But from what I've seen, I am eagerly awaiting the book. Zistorwal has always been a fun place. Greg's only touched on the Zistorites lightly so seeing more of them and their city would be a blast (as it were).

Jeff

 

[Trifletraxor]

I'd love a half-half regional setting / scenario book, something like River of Craddles, but I guess the page count will be too limited for that. Maybe the first half, with a scenario comming up after it?

SGL.

I'm desperate to fit a scenario in; it's plotted out with NPCs and scenes and everything already. I figure it might be the one and only time in my life I get to legimately call something A Spanner in the Works and keep a straight face.

My problem is that the book could be 12 pages or 12,000 and I'd still have more background stuff to say. But, yeah, I'm hoping to say all the worthwhile stuff and still have a nice scenario chapter at the back. Time will tell.

Maybe go for two books instead. Then the editors won't be able to cut as much from each. Judging by Mongoose's records, you'll have a mximum of 160 pages, but probably just 96. Looking forward to it though.

SGL.

 

[Rurik]

A detailed setting first and foremost.

Any supplement will always be judged (at least by crusty old grognards) against the Gloranthan Classics (Cults, Griffin Mtn., Pavis/Rubble, etc), whose magic was eventually captured by AH under Ken Rolston during the RQ Renaissance (Dorastor, Sun County, etc). These excellent supplements made RQ a classic as much as or more than the rules themselves.

In rough order I would like/expect to see:

Detailed setting, including some history, important characters detailed, and scenario possibilities. Ideally a map of the entire city.

Long Form Cults - I know the Zistorites are not a traditional cult per se, but I would expect their ideology to be given the full treatment. Maybe some other organizations as well (the opposition?) The detailed cult writeups are a huge part of the sucess of RQ.

Mass produced magical items and other Zistorite 'tech'. And how they do it. Grim is OK by me.

The siege. Typical forces involved, possibly even (rough) Orders of Battle for the recipients or similar info. Maybe even some information that could be used with the mass combat system?

Info on creating/running characters from the setting.

Stats rock.

Scenarios. These are very important, but if the book is going to be 96 pages the other stuff is more important. I would gladly pay $35 for a book that gets the GtSA/Monsters treatment with lots of scenarios over a $25 96 page book. But if 96 pages is it I would include maybe only one scenario, or possibly go with a bunch of scenario outlines not fully fleshed or statted out.

That's my 2 bolgs.

 

[StephenT]

Zistorite War Machines, etc

Why do I suddenly have a vision of giant clockwork Mecha stomping around the city walls? 8)

 

[Voriof]

Zistorite War Machines, etc

Why do I suddenly have a vision of giant clockwork Mecha stomping around the city walls? 8)

You too, huh? Greg gave an overview of some of them at one point. I just want my Land Battleships.

But from the Second Age POV, things like arbalests, crossbows and the like ended up in human hands thanks to this place. Greg wrote a small essay about the place at one point too.

Jeff

P.S. Somewhere, Renvald Meldekbane waits for the accursed city to fall.

 

[Rurik]

It is pure evil, what goes on in that cursed place. The sooner it is destroyed the better.

(But I still reserve the right to use some of their loot :wink: ).

 

[homerjsinnott]

I would love a good timeline and the opportunity to take my players there before the seige and have some advertures. Also I found the idea of a machine god rather than man/machine god much more alien and terrifying, after all men have souls. Perhaps it slowly changes or bits of it are slowly replaced...

 

[gamesmeister]

I think Rurik's post is an excellent summary of the kind of info I'd like, although personally I think at least one scenario is very important to blend all the ideas together and give a jumping off point for new (and old) players.

In my opinion, the AH book Sun County achieved an almost perfect balance for a regional setting, and that had a page count that may be acceptable to the Mongoose czars (128 pages). In fact I hope so, as 96 pages really does feel a bit "thin".

 

[tkdmitch]

A detailed setting first and foremost.

Any supplement will always be judged (at least by crusty old grognards) against the Gloranthan Classics (Cults, Griffin Mtn., Pavis/Rubble, etc), whose magic was eventually captured by AH under Ken Rolston during the RQ Renaissance (Dorastor, Sun County, etc). These excellent supplements made RQ a classic as much as or more than the rules themselves.

In rough order I would like/expect to see:

Detailed setting...

Long Form Cults....

Mass produced magical items and other Zistorite 'tech'...

The siege...

Info on creating/running characters from the setting.

A scenario would be cool and some stats too.

Thing is, any GM worth their salt will be so inspired by detailed source material that much more than a scenario and some starting ideas is great but can be lost if space is tight.

Lets just hope that nothing important (like making sense of the system) gets left on the cutting room floor.

Mitch

 

[Blackyinkin]

Hi,

Just show us that you understand Glorantha, that you have read Middle Sea Empire, King of Sartar and hell even spoken to Greg Stafford and Jeff Richard, if you don't know who the latter is then you need to, as he has been working with Greg on the nature of the Zistorites for the last year. Most of all make it fun, playable and right.

Simon

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Hi,

Just show us that you understand Glorantha, that you have read Middle Sea Empire, King of Sartar and hell even spoken to Greg Stafford and Jeff Richard, if you don't know who the latter is then you need to, as he has been working with Greg on the nature of the Zistorites for the last year. Most of all make it fun, playable and right.

Simon

Who is Greg Stafford?

 

[Rurik]

Who is Greg Stafford?

Spoken like a true Mongoose!

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

Who is Greg Stafford?

Spoken like a true Mongoose!

Pooey to you. You're not my friend any more.

Actually, I just had an alarmed PM from atgxtg saying along the lines of "Who is Greg Stafford? Don't make that joke without smileys!"

It never actually dawned on my until just then that some might actually think it was serious. I think I integrated my naivety rune this afternoon.

 

[Grazelander]

DBC who sets this page count limit? 96 pages is nowhere near enough adequate these days. Unfortunately Mongoose seem to be keeping this limit as gospel creating small pretty limited supplements so far. I wa spleased with Glorantha but needed another 200 pages at least to satisfy my inquistiveness.

I agree with the above sentiments that a book along the lines of Sun County is an absolute minimum, preferably with foldout maps. Better still give us a Griffin Mountain type sourcebook! - still the best RPG supplement bar none.

And if it comes down to info or scenario, please, please don't give us a half assed scenario at the expense of detail.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

DBC who sets this page count limit? 96 pages is nowhere near enough adequate these days. Unfortunately Mongoose seem to be keeping this limit as gospel creating small pretty limited supplements so far. I wa spleased with Glorantha but needed another 200 pages at least to satisfy my inquistiveness.

I agree with the above sentiments that a book along the lines of Sun County is an absolute minimum, preferably with foldout maps. Better still give us a Griffin Mountain type sourcebook! - still the best RPG supplement bar none.

And if it comes down to info or scenario, please, please don't give us a half assed scenario at the expense of detail.

The page limits are set by High Command. Thin hardbacks are pretty much a staple of the evolving RPG industry, since they work out better financially. Hence Mongoose, Wizards of the Coast, White Wolf, etc. all going that route. Maybe a lot of people here aren't big D&D or WoD players and don't see it happening that much, but it's the way it is.

Fold-out maps, likewise, seem to be mostly a thing of the past. They're the exceptions to the rules these days. Babylon 5 got one - actually, several - but that was several releases in with the Big Box of Cool Stuff (The Guide to the Station). If Glorantha gets a Big Box of Cool, I'd be heart-attacked plus pole-axed to find no maps in there.

A good writer can fit a lot of good stuff into 96 pages. That's 75,000 words - the length of a lot of novels. I promise to do my best on that score each time a Glorantha book comes up on my schedule, both because I know what it's like to expect good stuff from a new edition of something I love, and because I use these books, too. I don't need the backache from carrying pointless sourcebooks in my rucksack when I go to my gaming group.

Plus, y'know, pride in work and not wanting garbage on my resume', etc.

But primarily it's the backache.

 

[philreed]

Thin hardbacks are pretty much a staple of the evolving RPG industry, since they work out better financially.

Agreed. I've decided my next RuneQuest product will be 96-pages (PDF and hardcover, detailing a town and 30 nights of adventures in the town) because it seems to be the perfect size for the current market.

 

[Rurik]

Who is Greg Stafford?

Spoken like a true Mongoose!

Pooey to you. You're not my friend any more.

Actually, I just had an alarmed PM from atgxtg saying along the lines of "Who is Greg Stafford? Don't make that joke without smileys!"

It never actually dawned on my until just then that some might actually think it was serious. I think I integrated my naivety rune this afternoon.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

It is that damned chaos spirit an evil dentist bound to one of my teeth all those years ago that makes me say things like that.

And you left yourself wide open for it.

I miss big maps, but accept that marketing probably knows more about what sells than I do, and can live with the new formats. But it is a shame when marketing decides that a subject that really deserves a 160 page treatment can only have 96 pages. As I've said before, I'll take the $35 160 pagers over the $25 96 pagers any day if the material warrants it.