Why are Low Passages so deadly?

Reynard

Cosmic Mongoose
It's not the supposed high mortality rate of low berths that bothers me, it's the fact people are complaining because they so want to use low berths just because it's so cheap as a travel device. They also fly in ships that have a chance to be lost or destroyed (and worst) because the operators take chances cutting corners to save money.
 

Condottiere

Emperor Mongoose
I'm pretty sure at one time or another I've gone over this topic.

The primary reason for the given prices are that they are legacies from Classic; the primary cost drivers would be starship capital outlay, mortgage, and operating costs, plus net profit.

The real issue tends to be the operating costs, in dealing with passengers, 'cos freight doesn't suck oxygen.
 

Geir

Cosmic Mongoose
I just don't want to be the passenger that gets the lottery ticket stating zero survivors. Might as well just hand that one over to the captain before getting in the berth.
 

Being

Banded Mongoose
Most of the Naval ships, in High Guard, especially capital ships dont have ANY Low Berths, they have Barracks.

Its the cheapest most desperate means of travel, thats it. There is a massive risk the rules state that. Dont want the risk, dont use Low Berth. It is meant to be a drastic option, not a regular travelling option. Thats the point of the black humour, Captains Lottery. Would it be open to abuse. Yes. So are the other methods of passage.

If you dont think its "realistic" dont use it. There is plenty about the RPG that isnt "realistic".

The Traveller RPG isnt just the Imperium even if you use that setting. But the Imperium isnt as written one big safe setting, quite the opposite. It has roving Companies of Mercenaries, Pirates, hijackings...ships that arnt maintained, the risk of Misjump....
 

Ursus Maior

Mongoose
Being said:
It is meant to be a drastic option, not a regular travelling option.
I would agree with that, but then tramp freighters have no business having low passages in their regular options. If you take a last resort option, don't do it with a freighter that's bound to be anything less than in pristine condition with a well trained and staffed crew. And if you're a tramp captain, don't rely on desperate people, who don't pay well or die aboard. The latter gets you grounded on a regular basis for "inspections" and the former means just no money. Use your low-berth space to haul more cargo or install another stateroom. And people in desperate need of a way to get off planet can take a working-passage.
 

Garran

Banded Mongoose
Low berths for emergency preservation do make sense, and this sort of use is called out as its own thing.

It just doesn't make any sense as a common and uncontrolled means of travel with that kind of fatality rate.
 

Ursus Maior

Mongoose
Emergency preservation is nice an shiny, but if you have 6 staterooms and 4 low-berths, that's still a waste of space on a tramp freighter just barely making money. Also, the passenger table yields results to high to support any of these arguments. I think, we should accept that low passages are an artefact of another era of gaming and have no justifiable or realistic purpose in the canonical Tra'verse as it has developed since 1977.
 

AnotherDilbert

Cosmic Mongoose
Ursus Maior said:
I think, we should accept that low passages are an artefact of another era of gaming and have no justifiable or realistic purpose in the canonical Tra'verse as it has developed since 1977.

Low berths and the mortality risk is, and always has been, part of the OTU.

If you want to remove them from your game that is obviously entirely up to you.


MgT2 Core p149 said:
It is customary for the ship’s captain to contribute Cr10 from every low passage towards a lottery in which each low passenger randomly guesses how many will survive the trip. If the winner is among the dead, the captain collects the prize. The lottery is administered by a ship’s steward.



T5.10 said:
The Low Lottery
It is customary for the captain to contribute Cr10 out of each Low Passage towards a lottery administered by the Steward. Each Low Passenger randomly guesses the number of low passengers who will survive the trip; the closest guess by a successful awakenee is the winner.



LBB2'77 said:
It is customary for the captain to contribute CR 10 out of each low passage towards a lottery in which each low passenger randomly guesses the number of low passengers who will survive the trip. If the winner does not himself survive, the captain receives the money. The lottery is administered by the ship’s steward.
 

Reynard

Cosmic Mongoose
Complaints that a game has a risky and possibly deadly mode of transport no one in out real life would EVER do.

I take it we forget the world has regular instances of people willingly riding overcrowded deathtraps in the form of train, buses and ferries because it's really, really cheap and it won't go wrong for them. Load up the kids on the roof!

Ever notice how humans smoke, drink and shoot up with ALL the information and examples of the death and debilitation yet keep on doing it. Almost sounds like a game system.
 

Condottiere

Emperor Mongoose
Generally speaking, cruise ships and trains do enjoy one advantage, you don't really need life support.

And the possibility exists to stop and get off.

I was reading (or more precisely, listening) to one of Nuttall's novels, and when he mentions that warships have excessive life support, it suddenly made sense.
 

MonsterX

Mongoose
Have you or someone close to you been harmed by a poorly maintained or low-tech low-berth? Have you suffered wage loss or medical expenses due to the negligence of a low-berth operator, or a lack of post-cold sleep medical attention? We at the law offices of MonsterX and son are on YOUR side. We will fight to get the YOU the compensation YOU deserve. Just call 1-800-YYY-XXXX for a free consultation TODAY!
 

Stingray_tm

Mongoose
But riding on top of trains is something people do in violation of what the government or the train designer intended. As i understand the Imperium it is a gigantic beaurocracy. It does not care what you do on your planet as long as you pay taxes and don't engage in clearly over the top stuff like genocide and nuclear warfare. But it sure as hell wants you to follow the rules when it comes to space travel since the Imperium "rules between the stars". And no matter how apathetic the Imperium might be regarding individuals, it is still an advanced civilisation with some basic principles. I would count "not randomly killing its citizens" to be one of them.
In our example with overcrowded ferries or trains, people often DO face consequences if something bad happens. Government agencies might look away from time to time but they do not condone such a risky behaviour.
And again it is not about the existence of some risk. It is about the high risk of such an endeavour. Imagine 10 per cent of all train passengers in e.g. India dying during a trip... Do you really think the company would be allowed to operate its trains after that...?

The complaint is not about people taking insane risks. Of course some are forced to do that. The complaint is, that this risk is fully accepted and even supported by government, law enforcement and society as a whole.
So it would make sense to either reduce this risk rule mechanic to something more realistic or declare low passages at least officially illegal in Imperal Law, regardless of the actual enforcement of that law, this is a different discussion.

Of course this suggestion is purely academic because I ignore this rule in MTU already ;)
 

Subzero001

Banded Mongoose
Related to the question about low passage.

How are the Military "cold sleep" fair? do they assume that 10% of there cold watch officers will die/or the marines you put in cold sleep for the long journey to or from the front lines will just expire so why try? I saw that you can get another +1 for above tech lvl 12, what at the higher end like tech lvl 14-15 or even 16? better tech/better drugs etc...

I guess one way would be to burn your memory's and such like in "agent of the imperium" and give you a clone body at the other end to inhabit.
 

AnotherDilbert

Cosmic Mongoose
Subzero001 said:
How are the Military "cold sleep" fair? do they assume that 10% of there cold watch officers will die/or the marines you put in cold sleep for the long journey to or from the front lines will just expire so why try? I saw that you can get another +1 for above tech lvl 12, what at the higher end like tech lvl 14-15 or even 16? better tech/better drugs etc...

Use good doctors and the problem goes away. Not a solution for tramp freighters, but a battleship can easily afford it.

+2 Medic skill (doctor)
+1 Characteristic DM
+1 Medic skill (specialist)
+1 Expert software support
+1 TL12+ low berth
+1 Medical bay
=============
+7 Total check DM

With a +7 check DM you can't fail, unless the corpsicle END DM is -2 or less. If so, just take extra case and time (DM+2, Core p60), or add a nurse as assistant for a Boon.

Augment the Medic or use a High Automation ship for even higher DMs.
 

Reynard

Cosmic Mongoose
Cruise ships and subsidized liners should have facilities such as a medical bay on board as standard. Tramp freighters are a wild card but probably get away with it in the tangle of regulations by 'officially' posting the risks and filing consent forms. Passengers don't have to use the service but they do anyhow.

The reason PCs live longer is they do not sign those consent forms and climb in just like they always use refined fuel, never skip engine maintenance and always wait to hit the 100D mark before jumping....
 

Condottiere

Emperor Mongoose
Probably under time pressure, as exploding mesons tear the starwarship apart, causing power fluctuations.

It's not Alien, so it seems doubtful that anyone would volunteer for the Frozen Watch, without great incentive, like counting for time in grade, possibly imminent danger pay included in the standard salary.
 
Top